Credit Union Exam Solutions Presents With Flying Colors

Speaker: Hey everyone, this is Mark.

This episode is vastly
different from anything I've

ever done podcast wise before.

And you'll notice that there
was no introduction music today.

That's because I'm going to be
discussing something I've never

talked about here or anywhere else,
quite frankly, which is suicide.

If that's something that's
difficult for you right now or

ever, I completely understand.

And you might wanna skip this
episode, you might have even seen

the title of the episode and, uh,
just not listened already, but, uh.

Uh, that's the topic and I wanted to put
that, that warning, so to speak up front.

And also, if you or someone you
know is struggling, please reach

out to the 9 8 8 Suicide and Crisis
Lifeline by calling or texting 9 8 8.

That number again is 9 8 8

just before this weekend.

25-year-old Vikings wide receiver
Ron Dale Moore was found dead in

his hometown of New Albany, Indiana.

Suspected of self, of a
self-inflicted gunshot wound.

He was 25 years old.

He had a career that kept
getting taken from him just as

he was about to get it back.

Severe injuries, one of which happened
in his only Vikings preseason game,

his only Vikings game when he tore
his ACL for the second or third time.

Somewhere in there he
decided he was outta options.

His former teammate, Hollywood
Brown, tweeted something that hit me.

When I saw it, Hollywood
said, you wasn't alone, bro.

I told you I know how you feel.

So I've seen Hollywood in person at
an event that he received the key

to the city in Hollywood, Florida.

Not far.

Literally walk down to where this event
happened at the Margarita Bandshell

on Hollywood Beach, uh, where the
company and, uh, where I reside.

So Hollywood got his nickname because of
Hollywood, Florida, reading those words.

From someone that I've watched in
the community get an award and saying

he has mental health issues hit me
and brought out some memories that

I hadn't thought about for a while.

Personal memories that I wasn't
expecting to have as it related to

a family member and as it related to
some career situations where where

suicide, uh, was part of the story.

So for those of you who listen to
my podcast, know that I love sports,

I'm a struggling Vikings fan, and,
uh, how many years since 1960?

No Super Bowls.

But when I heard this story because of the
connection to, uh, the Vikings, it hit me.

And not just because of who Ron Dale
Moore was, and apparently you know,

you see all the tweets, all the quotes.

He was an amazing and happy guy until.

Sports injuries, I think took away what
he loved but also because of my, uh,

encounters that I mentioned with suicide
from a distance, but still, uh, it impacts

you if you're touched by it in any way.

So there's been a couple
times since I started.

Podcasting that I thought I
might record this podcast.

I actually talked to a coach I have
who've helped, who helped me build

the podcast about that concept.

He suggested a TED Talk and I never took
him up on that, but I don't think it's

quite worthy of a TED Talk, but I think
it is worthy to get my thoughts out here.

I think I'll feel a little bit, a
little bit better having recorded

and who knows, maybe, maybe, um.

Maybe it'll touch you in some
way based on your history.

Maybe it will touch, uh, someone
who, uh, I, I is impacted by

the stories I'm gonna tell here.

So when I was 19, I had my, my
first encounter with suicide.

I was at home I lived at home
my freshman year in college.

And, uh, I got a phone call from my
favorite aunt who was screaming and

crying and told me that her son had
killed himself and shot himself at home.

And he was in his twenties.

He had some challenges.

Obviously he thought it was the end
of the road and he made it the end of

the road because he took his own life.

Now, I was the only one home at the time.

This was before we had cell phones.

This is before you could text.

This is before you could just
grab the phone and talk to

anybody anywhere in the world.

We had landlines, so.

My mom and dad were out and I
waited, uh, for them to get home.

And, uh, I, I can visualize where I
told my mom, I, she opened the garage

door and I met her at the garage door
entrance the door, the door into the

house and, and told her what had happened.

And, uh, you know, she
was instantly upset.

She reached out to her sister.

And, uh, it was a very
emotional event for me.

More in particular for my mom.

Uh, because I wasn't
really close to my cousin.

I was closer to my aunt, but it
was my mom's favorite sister.

And if you've ever had to deliver any
news like that, you know what it does to

the person hearing it, you know what it
does to you, having to tell it, uh, you

know, how it impacted you based on your
place in the narrative of, of that event.

And you carry that with you.

You know, you are, you are.

You are the journey that you have, you
are the decisions that you've made, and

you are the things that you've seen.

So it influences you, you,
you have memories of it.

And it's horrific.

It's horrific for the survivors, whether
they're spouses or family members or

kids or just someone who has to be
involved in it in any way, shape or form.

Pausing here for a second to see which
direction, you know, this, this flows.

The second time this happened, I
had, I started as an examiner 1987.

And within a couple years of
that I was doing an examination.

In the Midwest.

I'll just leave it at that.

Relatively new examiner.

I had been at this institution
I think maybe twice, but I know

once for sure for a few days.

The state, state charter state
did not trust this place.

It had gone through a conversion
and had to do write-offs and,

you know, the commissioner was
convinced that there was foul play

involved, but they couldn't prove it.

They were.

A troubled credit union, they
had to, had difficulty making

money and they had low reserves.

So in any event I went there this next
time and it was during hunting season

and just before, just after Thanksgiving.

And the number two nice young lady who
was in charge on Monday when I got there.

You know, when you get there to start
an exam, if you've got any travel

at all, you might stop in, get some
things set up, then you go check

into the hotel and really Tuesday's
when you hit the ground running.

But she told me that the CEO
wasn't going to be until Tuesday.

'cause he was hunting that day and that
day or, or that No, it was the morning.

He was gonna be hunting in the morning
and he'd be coming in noon on Tuesday.

So I, you know, and I got there.

The state, the state examiner got there.

Um.

The number two comes in crying and
telling me that there had been a

hunting accident and the CEO was dead.

So, you know, I'm what, 2024 probably.

The state examiner may be a couple
years old, or he calls his boss.

I call my boss.

They decide that the state
will leave and I will stay.

And that was because the state
charged hourly rates and NCUA doesn't.

And the state again.

Uh, the commissioner was a great
guy, told me he thought something

was going on and maybe some things
would start coming through the cracks.

I'm at a hotel here and I thought maybe
someone was, was gonna be sticking their

head in, even though I've got my door.

Um, I.

My information out out there.

So anyway, he thought maybe something
was gonna be coming through the cracks

and it's come through the cracks.

It did, uh, it turned out there
was, I wanna say between 180 and

$250,000 of losses and or insolvency.

The credit union ended up ended up, um.

Being a 2 0 8 assistance and
getting recovery and then ultimately

merging maybe five, 10 years later.

And the number two stepped up, right?

But she was frantic that day.

It impacted me, it brought
up memories of my cousin.

Uh, and then, you know, um.

It brought up, Hey, when I was
here, should I have caught it?

Could I have caught it?

If I had caught it might things
have happened different for him.

But, um, I was reflective on the
job I had done having been there.

Uh, again, green, but only there,
for a drive by, because it was

a smaller state, charter charter
that had some financial situations.

But I was reflecting, looking at,
how it impacted my career, what I

could learn from it and all that.

But it was sad.

Then I go home and, um, back then you
used to go to movies and my spouse

and I went to Dead Poet Society.

It was starring, robin Williams, who
ironically later took his own life.

But if you know that movie
it's all about carpe Diem.

It's all about seizing the day.

It's, uh, captain, my
captain poetry's involved.

Really, really cool movie.

Powerful movie.

And it had a situation where a son
couldn't live up to the pressures of

his father and ends up taking his own
life in the same way that Ron Dale

Moore took his life in the same way
that my cousin took his wife, and the

same way that the CEO killed himself.

So, there's movies I won't watch.

There's things I can't watch because
it'll crawl into my head and, and,

uh, make it so that I can't sleep.

And, uh, I get a tear in my eye when I
see emotional stories, but I never bawled

like a baby at a, a movie but it hit
me a week after I was dealing with, um.

With a lot of emotion and a lot of baggage
tied to that examination, uh, where the

CEO that I knew from my previous vis
visit had, uh, taken his own life so,

as I said, I always connect with dead
poet societies with the examine, with

that examination in my mind, it's just a
connection that's burned into my brain.

I cannot think of dead poet society
without thinking of that credit

union, without thinking of my cousin.

And imagine, you know, someone
who, again, spouse, father.

Going to a baseball game with your dad
or with your spouse or, or whatever,

how horrific those memories are for
the survivor, yet they're good memories

because it's all you have left.

But even just these acquaintances
and the dis and a cousin who I wasn't

really close with are all connected
in my head with Dead Poet Society.

And, uh, I, I can't escape the thought
of those, all those connections there.

And, uh, when someone decides, um.

To take their own life.

And I'm trying to say the words
you're supposed to, the way

you're supposed to say them.

In, in, in the world that we live in
today when someone decides to take their

own life, they leave carnage behind.

And if, if you've been in by that,
by that, you know that better than

me because you've probably had
someone closer to you than me.

So I'm gonna jump ahead.

I'm on the East Coast,
I'm a regional director.

2005, 2006, 2007 ish, I think.

And we had an examiner who did a
fabulous job in a credit union.

And I wanna make sure for all of you
that aren't in podcasting, you gotta

make sure that you've hit recording.

Sometimes you start up, and
this would've been one where I

thought maybe I hadn't hit record.

All right, so the recording is all good.

We had a great examiner who had gone
into a credit union, uh, religious

based credit union on the East coast,
and he had done some digging and.

A lot of documentation and figured out
that there was millions and millions

of dollars missing in this institution.

And the facts were that the CE o
who was the treasurer actually is

the treasurer on the board back.

You know, there's that connection
in the smaller credit unions,

although they were, they were small.

Yeah.

He was the paid treasurer, but he was
also a stockbroker and worked at a, um.

Worked at Merrill Lynch and they
had an account at Merrill Lynch and,

uh, he had blank statements and he
falsified those statements and CUA

didn't catch it until this guy aged
and his eyes sight wasn't as good and

his efforts at falsifying the records.

Slipped up, and then that led to
the examiner doing some good invest

investigative work, digging into what
the what Merrill Lynch statements looked

like today, what the font looked like.

And we were, 95, 98, 99, pick a number.

Percent convinced this guy
had embezzled a lot of money.

They also, uh.

Had a lot of, appeared
to have a lot of capital.

They paid great rates and he, you
know, this is an affinity crime.

He brought his brothers, cousins, uncles,
friends, people from church, synagogue, to

get the great rate that they had because
this guy ran the credit union so well.

So at this juncture, I wasn't the
person on site, I was the person who

said, Hey, let's do that this Friday.

Okay.

Uh, we get, you have to, when you do
that, you gotta get approval to run

it up all the way to the NCA board.

And at that stage when you were gonna
conserve or liquidate a credit union,

you would typically do it on Fridays.

'cause that gave you the weekend
to figure out what was up.

Kinda like when I had that.

First situation where
the CEO took his life.

They said, stick around
to see what happens.

You kind of wanna stick around
over the weekend to see what

happens after you conserve a place.

So my team of examiners and my associate
regional director were there, and, uh,

they went in, they delivered the, the
papers, the notice of the conservatorship

and changed, you know, call a locksmith
and you start doing all the, auditing type

steps that you do on a conservatorship.

And the president was called
in to give him the paper.

You have 10 days to, to.

To contest a conservatorship, uh,
with your own funds, by the way,

not the credit union's funds.

And the president called the
treasurer saying, here's what

they're saying is happening.

And the treasurer says,
don't worry about it.

I'll come clear it up.

They, they've got things confused.

So the treasurer, gets off
the phone, goes and visits.

A friend in a high rise asks the friend
how he's doing and asks if he can use

the bathroom and jumps out the window.

The examiners nearby hear the
sirens, and then eventually

the dots are connected That.

The treasurer jumped out the web
window, took his own life, instead

of facing the reality of stealing
money from his family, uh, ruining his

reputation with his, with his kids,
et cetera, et cetera, and decided that

that was the only path that he had.

And, and as I'm telling you
this, I'm thinking about other

death and destruction that, uh.

I was aware of or experienced in
my NCA career, and I'll probably

do a podcast on this with, with a
couple of the key players in it.

The, uh, the bombing of the Tulsa,
Oklahoma building where the, where

the daycare was and the children died.

There was a credit union in
that office, and I, at the

time, worked in Dallas, Texas.

And I had more examiner time available
than the, the nearby supervisory

examiner, joy Lee who later I worked
with again, uh, in the central office.

And, my team was supporting her
team at another exam, and they

had to move in and try and help
this credit union who had blown up

. But that I'm not sure I'm,
I'll do that this year.

Maybe I'll keep these darker more
emotional podcasts to one a year.

But there's a whole story there.

Not tied to suicide, but tied
to, uh, tragedy, if you will.

Moving on to beyond those examples.

When I think about this, I think there's
three core messages that if I could

leave somebody with, uh, I would want
that I, that I feel I'm compelled to say

number one, it's never ever.

Ever as bad as you think it is?

I can't say that enough.

You know, the legal consequences
are real, but they are survivable

in many embezzlement cases,
especially when there's voluntary

disclosure and cooperation.

Sentences could be very small.

They can be measured in months
over years, not decades, not lives.

Particularly today.

People serve time.

People pay restitution and then
people rebuild their lives.

This is the country of second chances.

This is a great country.

You get the land of opportunity and
it's the land of second opportunities.

Things are never as bad as they seem.

The scar tissue you leave
on your family is horrific.

If you take a different path,
families can survive and careers,

different careers can be done again.

What's not survivable is what
happened in these two stories.

The individual who died in the hunting
accident, the individual who jumped to his

death from his friend's apartment and Ron
Dale Moore, those things are permanent.

You can't go back, and life is
always about maintaining options.

Tomorrow's another day,
get a night's sleep.

Things are never as bad as they seem.

Number two, there's always a way back.

There are attorneys who specialize
in exactly this, helping people

who've committed white collar crime.

It happens a lot because
they've, they've given a whole

name to it, white collar crime.

There are paths to voluntary disclosure.

Cooperation and reduce sentencing.

As I mentioned, an exit wrap does exist
at every single mile marker on this road.

Whether it's credit union related
or other challenges you're

facing, maybe it's not even theft.

Talk to somebody.

It doesn't have to be final.

Your actions don't need to be final.

There are people that will be
impacted, that love you, that need

you, that your actions will harm.

Not only harming yourself, you're,
you're harming everybody in that

journey that, that you've been on.

Think about it.

Number three, and this is me putting
more of my regulator hat back on.

You're gonna get caught, right?

That's not a threat.

That's just math.

It happens every year.

Examination process gets, processes
get better, technology gets better.

You slip up like the
guy who was going blind.

I can still see pretty good.

I don't like driving at night,
but I get the fact that over time

my ability to see is less than it
was 10 years ago or 20 years ago.

Today, right now is the best day
to change your path if discovery is

inevitable, and it is because I'm
telling you, you will get caught.

The only question is whether you control
the terms, you control the narrative

or whether the terms control you.

Again, nothing.

Nothing is that bad, and if you're
in the early stages of something

or if you're deep into something
and you can't see the way out.

There is a way back, and I, you know,
as I'm, as I'm sitting here, I thought

about when I was a new examiner in
training and I was going to the classes.

We had this really cool guy, really
great charismatic examiner from Boston.

I had this Boston accent and told
the story about when he shut off

a fraud that had been happening
and it ended up it ended up.

With all sorts of tentacles to
it, and it ended up with someone

also taking their own life.

So it happens, it doesn't have to happen.

Things are never as bad as they seem.

So as you're listening to this, I
try and have exam related takeaways,

and this really isn't that, right?

And by the way, this, this podcast
was, I've referenced, uh, different

podcasts, but I listen to a Vikings
podcast called The Purple Insider.

A guy named Matthew Caller does that
ironically, he's from Buffalo, who's

never won a Super Bowl, and now he does
a podcast about the Vikings who've never

won a Super Bowl, even though they've
had many journeys to the Super Bowl.

But Matthew did a podcast
about Ron Dale Moore.

Brought a tear to my eyes and,
uh, listened to it last night

and I said, you know what?

It's time to record this podcast.

So, uh, hat tip to the Purple
Insider for getting me to tell

the story I've never told on this.

So back to, uh, credit union
leaders, what can you do?

You create cultures where people
can raise their hands early.

Don't just audit the numbers.

Pay attention to the people.

There are warning signs, lifestyle
changes, resistance to taking vacations,

defensiveness about processes, insistence
on handling everything themselves.

Have your employee assistant program
resources visible and normalized.

Not just buried in a handbook,
not something that you do because

HR tells you to do, or that your
attorneys tell you you need to do.

Make it real.

When you discover fraud, remember there's
a human being on the other end of that.

Handle it firmly, but with awareness of
what's at stake beyond the balance sheet.

'cause it's not all about money.

Sometimes it seems like
life's about money.

I get sucked into that.

And I'm sure you do too, especially
when you're in the money world,

there's insurance, right?

The bonding company will pay
and the NCUA will pay, right?

Things will be made whole.

The only thing that can't be
made whole is if someone who

you could have treated kinder.

You could have treated as a human
didn't take the steps that these other

people took to make things final.

So how do you wrap up something like this?

I'm gonna go back to the beginning.

25-year-old kid with an NFL
contract living his dream, right?

People loved him.

A teammate who tweeted you weren't
alone, bro, but he felt alone.

That's what pressure can do.

Now, Hollywood Brown from Hollywood
watched him see that, get that key

to the city up there on the stage.

Million dollar contracts
with several different teams.

He's out there on social
media telling a dead teammate.

I told you I know how you feel.

So that tells you someone tried.

It still wasn't enough in this instance.

That's why we all have to try
to put your hand out to people

in similar needs, each of us.

And what's the quote?

You never know what
someone's going through.

You know, I've been on the
other end of that phone call.

I've had to tell my mother.

Her sister's family was
harmed in an irreparable way,

and Robin Williams, right?

Funniest man on the planet, in my opinion,
or until he decided to take his own light

because of the pain that he was suffering.

Remember, he stood in the front
of the classroom and he said,

Carpe diem seized the day.

Today's that day.

Tomorrow's that day.

Pick up the phone.

If you're having issues, call a counselor.

Call someone who cares.

There are strangers who care.

Seize this day.

Options only exist
while you're still here.

It's never as bad as it seemed.

Never as bad as you think.

There's always a way back, and if
it's because you're stealing money.

It's just money you're gonna get caught.

Turn yourself in, get counseling, get a
good attorney, but don't take drastic.

Action.

Action.

Lastly, if you're listening to this
or you can, you feel alone, you're

not, pick up the phone, call someone.

Call nine eight eight.

I didn't even know 9, 8, 8 was the
number to call until I started doing

a little bit of research this morning.

I mean, you hear those, you hear
the warnings, you hear the call

here but it doesn't hit until you
actually have a reason to let it hit.

And if this hits you, call or
if it hits someone that you

know, or you know somebody, it
might hit, give 'em the number.

Send 'em this podcast.

Don't make a T decision about
what truly is a temporary problem.

Also, the American Foundation for
Suicide Prevention is a F sp.org.

That's a f sp do org.

That's it.

I'll see you next week.

This is Mark signing off.