Credit Union Exam Solutions Presents With Flying Colors

hey everyone, this is Mark TriCal with
another episode of With Flying Colors.

This is a classic episode with Olympic
Gold medalist, Joe Jacoby, that I'm

rerunning here because he talks a lot
about teamwork and looking into 2026.

I'm expecting teamwork to be more
important than ever, particularly

as it relates to your exam,
and I thought, what, what?

Better way to end the year with
some real positive insights

from Olympic Gold medalist.

Joe Jacoby, I hope you enjoy.

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your exam with flying colors.

The With Flying Colors Podcast
is sponsored by Credit Union

Exam Solutions by Mark Trico.

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Treichel: Hey everyone, this
is Mark TriCal with another

episode of With Flying Colors.

I'm excited today because I have
a, a friend and colleague that

I met in the coaching world.

Uh, today we have the pleasure
of speaking with Joe Jacoby.

Joe mastered the art of navigating both
turbulent waters and life's challenges.

Joe is an Olympic gold medalist
having clinched America's first

ever gold in Whitewater canoe
slalom at the 1992 Olympics, but his

journey didn't end at the podium.

Today is a well-known performance
coach, transition expert and author

helping high performance leaders
unlock their potential and achieve

what he calls midlife peak performance.

From his home in the Pyrenees Mountains
of Catalonia, Spain, which is Fittingly

located beside the very canoeing
venue where he won his Olympic gold.

Joe continues to refine
and share his insights.

In 2022, he published Slalom Love,
the name of that book, a book that

translates his four decades of
river experience into strategies

for confronting life's obstacles.

Joe's latest project, a weekly
publication called Thinking In Waves

draws parallels between surfing
Offshore ocean waves and making

clear value aligned choices in life.

Join us as we dive into Joe's
journey from Olympic athlete to

life strategist, and explore how his
unique perspective can help us all

navigate the rapids of our own lives.

Joe, welcome to the show.

Joe Jacoby: Mark.

It's so great to be here
talking to you, my friend.

Treichel: Yes.

But it's funny, I, we, in our
pre-chat, I, I met you with Rochelle.

We were both on Rochelle's
podcast recently.

Rochelle to you and I is
Madonna or Cher, right?

It's just one word.

She's a she with one name.

You don't need her last name, but
Rochelle Moulton, who has a podcast

and, and, uh, I, I just remember back
then when I first met you in a Zoom

call like this, there were five or six
of us and you were just so positive.

Every, you have this glass half
full, and I don't know if that glass

came from the rapids of the Olympics
right outside there, but you're just

your energy and your positivity.

Um, I enjoyed it then and we've
connected on LinkedIn and, and I'm

really excited to chat with you today.

Joe Jacoby: Thank you, mark.

I, and I say this, I,
and I really mean this.

I think that joy and that excitement, that
passion for learning and living, that I

have, it, it feeds off of people like you.

And it's, I'm so curious.

I grew up in the Washington DC area.

I, I, I grew up with a lot of people that
were in that government line of work.

My, my father was a, he was a private
practice attorney, but he was working

with Federal Communications Commission.

But that mindset of people
that are retiring from federal

agencies and things like that.

I think it's hard to spring forward and
say, I want to do something really cool.

I wanna push myself.

I wanna move myself in new
directions and new boundaries.

I, you have a great story, like you've
done something very extraordinary and to

me, it's not just what you've done, but
it's knowing a little bit about where

you've come from and how you're doing it.

I, it's so clear to all of us that
know you, that follow you, and

you have such a great sense of
humor behind what you do as well.

But it's in a lot of people coming out
of that line of work and out of that

system will often sit on their hands.

They're really not sure what
to do next, but that's not you.

That's not your story.

Like you figured out how to do something
meaningful, substantial, and really

do do good for the people around you.

Treichel: That's very kind of you, and
I'll tell you my, when I have chats

with new clients or clients that I
bring on that transition, I think back

to the last couple years when I was
at NCA and working for the federal

government and it was like, can I do this?

Should I do this?

Will it.

Will I succeed?

Should I just ride off into the sunset?

'cause I'm burned out and
it's, I'm eligible, I've got a

pension and all those things.

And you have the self-doubt.

I had a, I had a coworker who knew a lot
of people who did do the transition and so

just a few conversations with him, coupled
with when my dad retired, him telling

me that he had people calling him for
two years when he said, the call stops.

So if you're gonna do it,
you gotta do it quick.

Which kind of conflicts with the,
the concept of people saying when you

leave and retire, you need to take
the time off to figure out what you

really, but was this coworker my dad?

And then you weave in pandemic that
you couldn't really go anywhere.

I was doing yard work and I started
listening to podcasts more than I ever

had stumbled across, uh, Rochelle and
Jonathan's podcast, uh, and consulting

success with Michael Zapersky.

And it was like, you know what?

I got a lot of time on my hands now.

And let's see what we can do.

And so success is a little bit of
opportunity and luck and having

the energy to do it and all that.

But yeah, it's, I would not have
envisioned this, but I'm really

having a blast helping people
from this side of the fence.

So let's look at where your
journey, I know it all.

It's easy to start and say, okay.

So my first question is going to
be, as it relates to that moment

you won the Olympics, right?

Okay.

So you just, you and Scott, your partner.

Joe Jacoby: Yeah,

Treichel: cross the finish line.

You win the gold.

What's in your head at that moment?

You had this long journey up to that
point in time, but take me back to that

day and, and what you were thinking
as you crossed that finish line in.

First,

Joe Jacoby: I'll tell you a
couple of things about the day.

I, it was August 2nd, 1992,
so it was 32 years ago.

And what the first thing I can tell
you about the day, I can tell you.

Everything that we were doing any
minute of the day between 4 45 in

the morning when we woke up that day
until 10 17 in the morning when we

made our first run down the course.

And what happened in between the two runs.

And then I remember the second, uh,
of our two runs as well, but that was

all over at, we crossed the finish
line at the Olympics and we, we

actually were not Olympic champions.

At the moment, we crossed the finish
line because in our sport it's just

one boat down the course, and there
were still 10 more boats to come.

Any of them could have unseated us.

But the reason I mention all this,
we didn't go to the Olympic park that

day with the goal to win the Olympics.

We went there to do the best we could.

And execute the plan that
we had set for ourselves.

So I can still remember everything
before winning the Olympics.

Like crystal clear what happened
afterwards, how I fell, all those things.

That's a lot more fuzzy, and it
wasn't because I drank all the things.

It wasn't that at all.

It's just that you put so much
into preparing to do the work, not

preparing to celebrate after the work.

It.

It's interesting.

But what I would tell you that happened
later that day, it felt a little bit like

someone put a crown on your head, maybe
a nice cape, and said, you're a king now.

And you weren't expecting that.

Like you had no idea that
you were gonna be a king.

At the end of the day.

All you wanted to do was go and canoe
the river to the best of your ability.

And we did that.

I think relative to, I think part of the
conversation that we're gonna have today

is that for better or for worse, you
realize that something big just happened.

You have no idea what it means.

You have no perspective or context of
what being Olympic champion means at this

moment, but you start to make some choices
about who you think you need to be.

How do you think you need
to show up in the situation?

What you need to be right about when
like I can, that is part of these midlife

transitions that I can look back on that
I probably started to really hold on to

pretty tightly back on August 2nd, 1992.

Not all of which were healthy.

But you don't know that at the
time, and then it starts to catch

up with you later in your life.

But I mean, it was obviously a great
feeling to stand on the Olympic podium

to to have the race, the competition
that you hoped you would have.

And, and I also would, last thing
I'll tell you is that my mom and dad,

who were both born and raised in the
Washington DC area, both have passed on.

Of course I remember how happy they were,
how much they enjoyed the experience.

That's one of the things I
remember so well, uh, on the day

of the Olympics was lace deje.

The small town that I live in, uh, two
and a half hours north of Barcelona

where the Olympics were being held,
or the whitewater course was in

this small town of 12,000 people.

I remember walking into the, the
little wooded tree square in the

middle of the town, and my mom and
dad would work at this long table

with friends with sangria glasses
all around and how happy they were.

Like, I certainly remember that as well.

So those are some of my, my,
my feelings about that moment.

But it is interesting.

I really started to hold on to
some ideas that, um, really stuck

with me for about 30 years more.

Treichel: It's interesting
too, as you're thinking, as

you're, as you summarize that.

The word that pops into
my head is journey, right?

It's about the journey and, and
you said 4:45 AM am to 10 17.

You remember every step of that journey,
whi, which is one of life's lesson, right?

It's not that you wanna get to that,
win that Super Bowl, win, that Olympic

gold, uh, fighting pleasure in the
routines that you create, that allow you

to achieve that is something that hit

me as you were describing that now.

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Uh, you, you talked about
you, you're from, uh,

Washington, DC area.

I know that you got your start
young and you had some opportunities

where people took you under your,
under their wings as part of the.

Elite group of kayakers.

Talk a little bit about maybe mentorships
that led you to that moment, and

then a little bit about the team.

Teamwork is, my kids ran in in cross
country and track and field, and they

learned so much from sports, but that
teamwork side of things that you pick up.

Talk a little bit about the partner
you had in the race and how you

worked together to achieve your goals.

The Olympic goals.

Joe Jacoby: Yeah, the, so there I
can really link a couple of these

ideas together in your question.

So I wanna start with growing up
in the Potomac River and that level

of mentorship that you asked about.

I know a lot of people in the United
States would not look at Washington

DC as like this positive, high
performance place, or especially

right now, but it's just very unique.

Big city in that there's an amazing
Whitewater river that flows through

the middle of the city, the Potomac
River, with these great rapids.

And if you think about Whitewater
River Rapids in the United States,

most are located in very rural,
mountainous areas, far from good

jobs, far from good universities.

So because you had whitewater in
a big city, it was the place where

all the US athletes wanted to be.

They needed a place to have jobs,
they needed a place to go to school.

And so it turned out that the
athletes on the Potomac River when

I was 10, 12, 11, 12 years old in
the early 1980s, the athletes in the

United States, they were the highest
performing athletes in the sport.

When I went to my first workout with
the US team when I was 12 years old,

everyone there was a world champion
or a world medalist, or the legendary

coach of the sport, and there was
an amazing level of mentorship.

Canoeing is individual sport in that
it's like a relationship with you

in the water and you with yourself.

And there's not like a football coach
saying, mark, get your butt to practice.

Where were you yesterday?

You gotta run 10 left.

No one cares.

You show up because you wanna show
up, mark, you come there because you

want to be there, but if you want to
be there, this group was incredible.

Like they totally had your back.

They really helped.

They wanted people that really fit into
the culture and, and the community.

But the second part, you mentioned
having a a doubles canoe partner.

So the United States was especially
good in the men's single canoe,

which is the sport I wanted,
the discipline I wanted to do.

But the coach pulled me aside when
I was 17 years old and he, and he

said, Joe, he goes, you're good.

But he goes, you might come in eighth
or ninth place at the US team trials.

And only four get to represent the United
States, and any of our four athletes

could make, not only could they make
any other team in the world, all four

of them are capable of winning a medal.

In fact, at my first World Championships,
the US went first, second, third,

and sixth in that category.

And so he said, but look, if you
go, if you and Scott and the person

in the same position as me, if you
were to paddle the doubles canoe.

You'll make the US team, you'll get the
experience of the World Championships.

You'll be there, you'll just, you'll
have an opportunity to start the

World Championships at 17 years old.

So I literally went from my high school
graduation to a small village in France

to compete in the world Championships, and
it was like life changing experience and

doing this in a doubles canoe with Scott.

I think one of the things, we came
from this amazing ping culture in the

Washington DC area, which we stuck with
for the next three years, but it also

told us that it was a hard and very
grinding culture and it became very

apparent that we had to find our own
way forward, that maybe the way of these

world champions was not the way for us.

They gave us a lot of good
fundamentals, but the biggest, most

important choice that Scott and I
made was three years into our career.

We left the Washington DC area and
we went down to the quiet solitude

of the ante Hala River in Western
North Carolina in Appalachia,

which seemed like a crazy move.

Like why would you leave?

It's like being on the Chicago Bowls
in the 1990s and leaving to go like

start an expansion startup team.

But it was the most important and
best decision that we ever made.

And I think where this relates even
to the people that are listening right

now, it's really nice to look at the
best leaders, the best people running

banks or the best sports athletes,
and saying, I wanna be like them.

I wanna put their system into place.

I, whatever's working at Salesforce, I,
I want to try it at our company as well.

It is like the worst idea ever.

There are things you can learn from
everyone, but the hardest thing to do in

leadership, whether you're running a big
company or you're running a credit union,

is to find your own way of performing.

And everyone can do it, but it's
hard work to do and it takes time

and it takes patience and you gotta
be willing to make some mistakes.

Anything short of that, you'll, you will
struggle with results or you will not be

operating really at your peak ability.

You're trying to run someone else's
system that's really not uniquely your

own and suited not only to your team,
but to the conditions of around you

and the conditions of your community.

Treichel: That's fascinating.

So thinking about the conditions
around you, I'm, I'm thinking

about conditions as you're.

As you're on the river, and I know that
you have a lot of, of ways of relating

the river to Yes, real life, but when
business, and whether I'm talk, whether

I'm having a relationship with my kids, my
wife, a client, or picking up the phone,

talking to customer service at the cable
company, communications is, is paramount.

And I saw Sully Sullivan who landed
a plane on the, on the Hudson River.

I saw him speak one time and he
talked about training and the

importance of he had never met his
copilot and they got in their plane.

The copilot was trained.

He was trained.

The, the birds hit their engines
and they started communicating

in very short statements to each
other because they knew the book.

They'd lived that book of that
training, and they landed it and

saved all these people's lives.

Now, here you have a, a, a
partner that you're training with.

Daily, monthly for
years, but communication.

So you do know the person.

What, speak to me about the communications
as part of a team kayak and, and

how that might, how that relates
to success outside of kayaking.

Joe Jacoby: Yeah, so a couple of things.

One of, first thing I'll say
about paddling the doubles canoe

in Whitewater River in this very
uncertain, changing condition.

Before you strap yourself into a
canoe and you literally strap yourself

into the racing canoes that we're
in, you wanna know something about

the other person that you're gonna go
through this experience with, right?

You wanna have a sense of how they're
gonna show up, not when things are going

well, but when things are not going well.

And I think that really
relates well to the Sully story

that you were talking about.

Secondly, in canoeing, uh, we
don't, in fact, if you, I would

always tell people, if you saw
Scott and me talking on the river.

Meant that we were making mistakes.

Really, our communication was
based on unspoken communication.

It was really reading
body movements for me.

In the back of the canoe reading
Scott's body movements, he was

communicating to me what he was
trying to do with the canoe by.

The little strokes that he was doing,
and I would look at those strokes and

then I'd be like, oh, he's trying to
do a draw stroke, which is designed

to pull the boat to the right side.

Oh, I can compliment
that with a sweep stroke.

He doesn't have to say anything.

I can just tell the stroke he is doing.

If Scott is going into a sweep
stroke, that means he wants

to push the boat to the left.

Great.

I can do like a draw stroke and
it's like it's all unspoken.

Right, and which is pretty cool.

What's more interesting
about the relationship with

Scott and I think is really.

Interesting for the audience
that we're talking to today.

I don't think Scott and I were 180 degrees
different, but we were about 179 and I

like to say that if we were 175, I don't
think we would've won the Olympics.

I think it was our diversity, uh,
our differences that made us great.

And I know that diversity.

In the late 1980s probably means
something different than it does in

2024, but I think the idea of it is
not that different, that there are ways

to read into people's differences and
the way they evaluate success risk.

Focus a goal, rest,
recovery, things like that.

And the neat thing about having
a diverse team or people who see

things differently, it brings
more perspective to the situation.

But it all comes down to how you
process that and how you work with that.

Like initially, especially as the pressure
went up on Scott and me and we, we went

from, Hey, this will be a fun thing to do.

We can make the US team in a
doubles canoe to being like.

You're winning medals.

You have a chance to win the Olympic
games or medal in the Olympic Games.

That's when we started, like I started to
self-destruct the team because I didn't

have these tools of how to work with
a partner under stress, under duress,

with a lot of just tension on the line.

But we had a sports psychologist
that came in and, and, and helped us,

uh, do that mark, and that was huge.

Then that gave us like a lot of ways out
to work with people and appreciate the

things that make them difference and the
it would, the best thing that I'll tell

you about this sports psychologist, he
didn't come in and say, oh, Scott, you're

an introvert, and Joe, you're an extrovert
and therefore you gotta do this and this.

What he did was, instead of
doing that, he just looked for.

What do the conditions look like
for putting, for choices being made

under better circumstances, and how
do you create rules of engagement for

having better conversations of trust?

That's it.

We didn't have to wear these labels
on us that said you're an introvert,

or there's all these tests that tell
you what kind of identity you are.

Instead, I think what we can be more
consistent about tho, those are fine.

Those are interesting, but I think
what's more important is like.

Being smart about having, setting
the conditions about when we can

have trusting, engaging conversations
and when we can't and not, and

really doing them with intention
and purpose and preparation.

And if you do those things.

You'll have much better meetings,
especially with leaders who are different

than you, maybe operate and do different
things, and that's how the diversity

of people and leaders really ultimately
lead to great performances by teams.

Treichel: That's fascinating.

Hey, so as I'm listening, uh,
to you talk about this in your

relationship with your teammate, two
books popped into my head, blink.

Which is that your,
your brain's a computer.

That it's the journey you got to today
that allows you to make a decision in

a blink of the eye, so you're in the
back of that kayak because you went

down so many rivers with your teammate.

And when you see him lean one way,
it, you don't even think about it.

You just do it because of
that, that rote memory.

Then on the diversity side
of it, the, the diversity.

When I think diversity and I, I think of
diversity of thought and I, I think of,

of a book called The Wisdom of Crowds,
and that when you surround yourself

with different people, whether it's
race, sex, or just someone who comes

from a different part of the country
or from a different country, yeah.

You have that dialogue.

You have a better.

It leads to less blind spots, and
because those blind spots are gone,

you're gonna maximize your decision.

Any thoughts about,
about those connections?

Joe Jacoby: Listen, I would actually,
I believe in general that, especially

for younger people listening to
this podcast, I have a 23-year-old

daughter that just graduated from
business school in Geneva last week.

I think for so many of these young
people, their work is going to be defined.

By their ability to quickly adapt to
people from different parts of the

world and not working together for
long periods of time, but on a project.

So you can't, you gotta have a goal.

You want to have a common goal
with that, but you're gonna need

to do some work within that to.

Understand again, what your, your project
coworkers, how they experienced, what,

what does it mean to feel belonging and
what does it mean to take risk and what

does it mean to connect or to really take
more, just more risk in the situation?

And that, I know that for me, I mentioned
I've been living in another country.

I haven't been to the United
States in more than five years now.

I am, I, I love where I'm living, but
part of what I love about being here,

in addition to the spirit of the kelon
people and the surroundings of the

kelon landscape and the environment,
just the, it's so wonderful, but.

I have to, I wake up every day to do
the basics, like schedule a dentist,

appointment haircut, buy vegetables from
the supermarket, get my car inspected,

pass a driving test, whatever it is.

I do all of this in a different language.

I do all of this in Catalan, and
it means like I have a few seconds

when I wake up where I might
have, it's like a little foggy.

Where am I?

What's going on?

What's that language being spoken outside?

The, the, the window.

Oh yeah, I remember
what I've signed up for.

I've signed up to learn, like my
brain is on learning mode from the

moment, and that's how I survive.

That's how I get by and I love it.

I'm living in a, in the summer in
Catalonia, I live at the coast instead

of the mountains and the town and
the conditions are, are different.

But yeah, I've learned like three or four
new words this week and I've come up with.

Different ways to remember them.

And it, it's so stupid on so small
on one level, but on the other hand,

like I know how fired up my brain is.

Like I know how fired up and
excited I am to learn and use

these words in conversation and,
and to just get out there and try.

That's the world that we're
living in right, right now.

And that adaptability, I, I will say,
and I'd be so curious to know from you,

and I know that your work and your.

The consulting that you're doing is
around a very certain outcome that's

passing its certification and passing
exams, but I wonder how you see

adaptability, the need in this world
that we're living in and how fast the

world is changing even in credit union.

Like how do you see people.

Making the adaptability jump
from and see that evolving.

What does that look like in
the consulting practice today?

Treichel: I'll tell you, adaptability,
it triggered, there's a strength fighters

test that I, it used to be Gallup,
they got bought by another company.

But when I was at N-C-U-A-I, I took that.

This binders test.

You answer a bunch of
questions and it gives you.

Your five key strengths and it gives you
your scores that you're not so good at.

And I liked it so much when I was the
deputy executive director 20 years ago,

had everybody at the agency take it
and we had this training class where

you could learn from what others were.

And again, going back to
the teams and all that.

But the reason I bring it up is one
of my top five was adaptability.

And essentially that chaos
didn't bother me that that.

Being pulled in one direction by one
NCA board member or by one staff member.

I just viewed that maybe, again,
going back to the river, it was

the river's gonna be rough and
you got, you have to adjust.

And that's been a benefit for me as a
consultant because, because it, what

was helping an agency regulates someone.

I flip that a hundred, 180
degrees talking about degrees.

Again, I flip that to helping
those who were regulated and I've.

And it's learning a new language and
there's similarities to the other

languages that you know, but you start
to see things a a little bit different.

But I agree with you a hundred percent
that, that the world is moving so fast.

And another thing that popped into my head
related was Seth Godin's daily emails.

He talked about new systems and the
constant need to learn because if

you link to something in the past
because it's comfortable for you.

You might wake up the next day and find
out that it's irrelevant and what you're

doing is a little bit more irrelevant.

And I love that.

The idea of the, the continual learning,
I guess that's what, when we talk about

pivoting to, to doing something new.

I'm really enjoying learning things
that I, that, that are related.

But whether it's doing a podcast and
failing forward, John, I took Jonathan

Stark's class when we, when I started my
podcast, and it was five days on how to,

how to start a podcast and then Okay.

Do it right.

And my first message at my, my
first podcasts were pretty, pretty

rough and I've grown a little bit
over time, but not being afraid

to, to lose sight of the shore.

Is such a good skillset,
uh, for anyone to have.

And, and then also in the world
of coaching, reaching out.

We used to hire coaches for our executives
when they came up to the executive level.

We had contracts where we would arrange
for coaches for them, because being a

doer is different than being a manager.

And being a leader is
different, but an executive is

different than being a manager.

It creates a lot of new challenges
and there were people who came up

and said, I don't need a coach.

And so I was instilled with this
concept of that being important.

So when I came out and realized I was
going to want to go down this path

of doing consulting, I reached out
to, I've had probably seven or eight

different coaches at different times on
different things and that, which goes

back to that, them teaching me different
things that I wouldn't have thought of.

The sports psychologist
that you mentioned?

Yeah.

Being open to advice.

Um, I guess is another way of saying it.

Joe Jacoby: I love that.

And by the way, I think for people that
are listening that are thinking about

coaching, I think one of the things
I like to say, my best experience

in being coached not as a coach.

Uh, it's also true as a coach.

As a coach, but really I
learned this from hiring my own

coaches as me being the coachee.

Is that, I think it's good to
go into it with a goal, or maybe

there's something you want to improve
upon and you know what that is.

But be open to something more.

Be open to something magic goal to happen.

And very specifically, a couple
years ago I took Dustin Reitman's

podcast Profits Accelerator course.

It was all about podcast guesting.

And I loved it.

I went into it with a focus on podcast
guesting, but I was very open to other

things that could come out of it.

And my gosh, I think it was so much
of the preparation and the process

of setting that up and how I could
really use that to create some

vision to my work as a soloist coach.

It was phenomenal.

And so I think now when I'm,
when people are really thinking

like, do I need a coach?

What do I need a coach for?

Be thoughtful about why
you would want to coach.

What is that thing that you
really wanna improve on?

And then just open yourself
for something magical to happen

or for some change to come in.

And that's, those are the big jumps.

And I have a few examples of, again,
for me being the coachee, not the

coach, where that has happened.

And of course, as the coach, I've
seen it with my clients as well.

Treichel: Yeah, no, that's exciting
when you can see growth in the people

that you're working with and they
come in with that goal and then they

achieve it, it's special for them and
it's special for the coach as well.

So we jumped over, uh, from winning the
gold medal to doing the coaching, but

there's a transition period in there.

And I know you were the CEO of
US Canoe and Kayak for a while.

Yes.

And I know that, that I've heard you
tell stories about doing motivational

speaking after you did the Olympics, and
some advice you got relative to that.

So maybe speak to what your.

After the gold medal and then
you transitioned into doing

other things in the sport and
then other things beyond that.

Speak a little bit to
that part of your journey.

Joe Jacoby: Yeah, this, and this
was something I wrote about in

the last chapter I wrote about
in slalom, was this story.

So we were on the bus going to the
closing ceremony at the 1992 Olympic

Games, and this legendary coach, that
same legendary coach that was at my first

training session when I was 12 years old.

Now it's 10 years later.

Bill Endicott is his name says to
me, he says, Joe, you're an Olympic

champion and you're going back to the
United States the day after tomorrow.

What's next?

And I said, I've got some
speaking engagements lined

up, like I can't believe it.

I'm a whitewater canoeing guy
and people wanna hear the story.

And he said, could I give you some advice?

And I said, of course.

And Bill said, he goes, four years
ago I coached Norm Bellingham, who won

a gold medal in Flatwater kayaking.

And I know Norm because we went to
summer camp together in the DC area.

He says, I'll tell you what I told
Norm for the first couple of weeks

when you go back to the US and put on
your team USA uniform and a gold medal

around your neck, and you could just
say, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And people will think that's interesting,
but then it's not good or bad.

It's just human nature for
people to say, Joe, that's great.

You won a gold medal in the
Olympics, but how does that help me?

And Bill said.

Joe, if you can figure out how
this helps them, you'll tell

this story as long as you want.

And I'm still telling this
story today, 32 years later.

Not because I love telling the story,
but because I see it's helping them

and it's all about the transfer.

It's all about taking an activity that
people know very little about, that it's

hard to really wrap your hands around.

Kids are not checking out canoes and
kayaks during recess in the United States.

It's not pe It's, it's hard to do.

It's hard to access in a lot of places.

It takes resources and money and
time for the parents to shuttle you

back and forth to and from the river.

It's not easy to do.

I just knew from the moment we won
the Olympics that this was gonna

be like a big effort project in
reframing Olympic success for me into

really What does it mean for you?

I've never stopped doing that.

And not only have I done that with
the river now for 32 years, I wrote

the book two, two years ago and, and
30 years after winning the Olympics.

So I waited until I had all this
experience and won the Olympics and said,

okay, I know something about the river.

I am good at giving voice to the
river, and here's how it'll help

you navigate the river of life.

Now what I'm doing is I'm learning how
to paddle in the sea and surf these

offshore ocean waves on a surf ski kayak.

I'm never gonna be world champion at that.

I am relative beginner at it, but oh my
gosh, mark, this sport is so beautiful.

I'm having so much fun learning
something new, and I'm doing

this with my girlfriend, Maria.

And it's, I write these weekly essays
every week called Thinking In Waves,

which relates the learning experience
that I'm having to an innovative model

for clear thinking and better choices.

And it's always about taking what
I'm doing and reframing it in a

way that will help other people.

And I just see no limits
on what it can do.

But it also, not everyone's willing
to do that work, like to use the river

as a high performance metaphor or to
use the sea and use ocean waves as a

high performance thinking metaphor.

It takes a little work.

You're gonna, it's like we were speaking
about earlier, we, you are gonna

have to figure out some methodologies
and models that work for you, and

they're gonna be uniquely yours.

You can't take them from someone else.

They are principles, they're frameworks
that will help you figure out what

you're good at, what you enjoy, where
you're losing momentum, where you're

managing energy poorly, where you're
not aligned with your core values, your

core mission, and your core purpose.

I think all your competitive edge,
everyone has like a scale of how

they compete with others and how
they compete with themselves.

Everything from, I wanna win in
a almost, in a not so good way.

To being like, dude, I have
no interest in competing.

That is so not me.

That's also not very helpful, you know it.

But we gotta look into these things
and figure out models that help us

understand who we are and how we operate
in order to build a plan that works for

ourselves and one that is built around our
capacities and the conditions around us.

And that's it.

That is really what I took away.

From this transitional experience and
when now it's something that I can

form collaborations with people, I
can, no matter what those collab, those

transitions are around, whether they're
very professional or whether they're more

personal, and, and we can work that out.

And it adds tremendous value to people's
life, like huge value to people's life.

'cause they're not alone and they're not.

Stuck in the mud, but they're
really enjoying the process

of experimentation and growth.

Treichel: That's a, a fascinating
and eloquent summary, and it reminded

me of one of our conversations when
you were filling me with the energy

of your wisdom, and I pointed out
to you a song by the Water Boys.

This is the Sea, and as
you're talking about, yes.

You having transitioned from
the river to the sea, there was

actually a line in that song that
was the river, and this is the sea.

So now you're out there
doing it on the sea.

So that circle is complete

Joe Jacoby: a hundred percent.

And the, and by the way, the
river to the sea, it can feel like

the sea is the end of the line.

Oh my gosh.

It's just beginning like it.

It's incredible out there.

And I have, I still, Maria and
I paddle on the river as well.

Like we're still active
river people as well.

But for the next two months
it's all like tomorrow.

I'm not doing one downwind session.

I'm doing two downwind sessions
a morning and an afternoon

and, and it's really funny.

And just to, I think this is so
interesting as I share this with people,

my purpose in paddling on the sea.

It's so clear.

I want to see beautiful things
from the water with Maria.

Full stop.

That's it.

And you would think, great.

We'll go do that.

If I see a whale or a beautiful
sunset, you would think, box check.

No, it doesn't work like that.

There's beautiful things
to see all the time.

Even better if I get, if I keep myself in
good shape, if I get more proficient at

surfing the waves and I am very attentive
to the direction I'm going and why I'm

doing it and how I'm doing it, guess what?

I'll get to do this for a longer part
of my life, which means I'll get to see

more beautiful things with Maria for a
longer period of time, which is what?

Life is all about for me.

That's it.

I, it's so clear and so easy.

It gives me all the reason I need to wake
up and get out of bed in the morning.

And I think having those conversations
with other people, and even you

said something at the start of this
conversation, I think that we can

also help more of the leaders of
credit unions, people that are working

in the government, start to think
about these next chapters of life.

You're not gonna give up.

Not only are you not going to give up
your competitive edge on what you're

doing now, more likely you're gonna
sharpen that competitive edge if you

give yourself not like the idea of what
sitting on the sofa and lying around is

gonna look like, but what learning and
growth and peak performance is gonna

look like as defined by Mark, as defined
by the person who's listening to this.

It's such an awesome opportunity.

Treichel: Oh, it sure is, Joe.

That's, that's fantastic.

So, a as we wrap up here, if someone
is listening today and they want to,

so I see you on LinkedIn, uh, a lot.

I know you've got, I
subscribed to your newsletter.

If someone wants to connect with Joe
and talk to 'em about, uh, anything

we talked about here or arranged to
have you as a coach, what's the best

way for them to get in touch with you?

Joe Jacoby: Yeah, first of all, let,
I'll, I'll give you some links in

the show notes to do that, but really
connecting with me to LinkedIn is great.

Subscribing to Thinking in
Waves is an easy, uh, thing to

do from my LinkedIn profile.

And Joe jacoby.com

is, uh, being redone and fixed
up right now, but you can

still email me and schedule a
discovery session there right now.

Of course, we will have a lot
of better functionality on the

new website when that's ready.

But yeah, LinkedIn is a really
good way and we can also get a

couple of links in the show notes
that make connecting really easy.

And I gotta, before I go,
I gotta do a shout out to.

My credit union that I work in,
Ducktown, Tennessee, the Copper

Basin Federal Credit Union.

I know Jessica Rossick follows
your content on LinkedIn.

I haven't been in the United States
in five years, and I've been living

where I live for seven years now.

I don't have a fancy international bank.

I have Copper Basin Federal Credit Union
in the United States, and that is it.

And they are amazing.

I can do everything I need to do to live a
rich life financially in Spain because of

what happens at my, one of our bankers at
Cooperation Federal Credit Union is Casey.

And it is amazing.

I can text with her, I can send her
a message, and it's incredible the

world that we're living in right now.

And Ducktown southeastern Tennessee
is this small town college Ducktown is

like 300 people and it's in the edge
of the, the Cherokee National Forest.

And, but it's feels like
the middle of nowhere.

It's beautiful.

Anyone would love visiting there.

Yet it's incredible what
they make possible for me

and the way I live my life.

So I know that credit unions are what
this is all about and I just wanted

to do a little shout out for mine.

Treichel: That's really cool.

Credit unions rock.

It's people helping people as
opposed to big banks making

profits for their stockholders.

I was fortunate enough to, uh, land in
the industry and then be able to help.

Help the agency, help credit unions,
and it is just, it's perfect that

you're a proud credit union member.

Joe, thanks.

Thanks so much for your time today.

Uh, I've really enjoyed this.

Thank you so much, mark.

This was wonderful.

You got it.

And listeners, I want to
thank you for listening.

I hope you'll listen again soon.

This is Mark TriCal signing
off with Flying Colors.

katie: Thank you for joining us on
this episode of With Flying Colors.

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