Credit Union Exam Solutions Presents With Flying Colors

Treichel: Hey everyone, this
is Mark Trekel with another

episode of With Flying Colors.

I'm excited to be here today with three
former NCA folks from my time at NCA, all

three of which have been on the podcast.

Individually in a couple groups of of two.

But today we're expanding it to
four and I'm excited to have John

Ney, Alonzo Swan and Jeff Bino.

That's the order.

They're on my video here.

And guys, why don't you introduce
yourself on what you did at NCA when you

were there, in case a listener doesn't
know and what it is you're doing now.

And we'll start with John up
in the upper left hand corner.

McKechnie: I'm not.

After all these years, I'm still not
completely certain what I did at NNC A,

but os ostensibly my title was Director
of Public and Congressional Affairs.

I was there during a pretty exciting time,
as we all know, during the the financial

crisis back in 2008 and through 2010.

I have, since 2011, I've
sh hung out my shingle.

I'm doing my own thing on the consulting
side working in the credit union space

as well as with the home loan bank.

One of the federal home loan
banks and some of the mortgage

and insurance firms out there.

So just trying to stay busy.

The last couple weeks have been
a bit of a challenge with the

federal government shut, but we
can get to that in a few minutes.

Treichel: Yes, we can.

And speaking of Federal Home Loan
Bank, Alonzo, why don't you go next?

Swann: All righty.

Claim of fame.

I started in the early eighties
with NCUA as an examiner.

Worked my way up through the agency
and moved ended up as director of

supervision in about the 1990 timeframe.

Had moved out to Chicago, my home area in
94, and finally I got promoted to regional

director in 19 97, 98, officially.

And retired from that position
after 13 fun years except

for the last couple in 2010.

And during that same time, I side
saddled in the air Force, retired as

Lieutenant Colonel same year, 2010.

And, took a, took three years off and
after that decided I still had some

purpose in life and ended up at the
federal Home Loan Bank of Atlanta,

where today I'm their credit union
strategist and I've been there going on

my 13th year having a good time still.

Treichel: Wow.

13 years.

That's amazing.

That's amazing.

And we had a lot of fun and a lot
of regional director meetings where

we would we'd hear from the powers
that be about what they wanted to do.

Maybe it was even Jeff telling the
powers that be what we should do.

And then we would break up
in huddles and try and figure

out how to get it done right.

Bacino: Now that's what you're gonna
tell the people, mark, is that we,

as the board would tell you what
to do and you guys would go do it.

'cause I tell you, sometimes at the
board level, we thought, wait minute

we're telling 'em what to do and
they're still doing what they wanna do.

I'll segue in if you want.

Treichel: You got it, Jeff, you're up.

Bacino: Fortunate enough to
have been appointed by Bill

Clinton to be on the board.

Back in late late 2000.

Served down for about a year and a
half, then was appointed by George W.

Bush, which makes me true bipartisan to
be on the Federal Housing Finance Board.

So basically everybody on this
call has some credit union and

Federal home loan bank as well.

After I left the finance board
went off on my own again.

I managed three trade associations, the
association for Credit Union Audit and

Risk Professionals, which is internal
auditors, ERM, compliance and risk folks.

I managed the Metropolitan Area Credit
Union Management Association, that's

Maryland, dc, Virginia Credit Unions and
the National Council of Postal Credit

Unions, handful of retainer clients
and just like John trying to keep busy

and trying to stay ahead of the law.

Treichel: Ahead of the law.

That's always a good thing.

That's always a good thing.

Speaking of law, the NCA Board by law
is supposed to have three board members.

And speaking of regulations, you're not
supposed to commit eight false starts

when you're trying to beat the ravens.

Swann: Boo-hoo,

Treichel: probably

Swann: harder

Treichel: filming this after having
visited Minnesota to see the Vikings beat

the Ravens and I had everything perfect.

Really good seats, other than the
fact that the Ravens outplayed us.

And and now we got two Chicago Bears fans
that are gonna beat up on me on Sunday.

Probably just like the Bears
will beat up on the Vikings.

So

Bacino: we can help,

Treichel: But supposed to
have three board members.

We only have one board member, NC a's in
the middle of budget season, not having

a lot of board meetings, but they just
did their budget briefing last week.

Is there, are there any updates on,
on, where we're at as far as the

Supreme Court, where we're at on
Tanya Ska and Todd Harper and their

efforts or anything to share on that?

Any of you guys?

McKechnie: I went to the budget
briefing last week and it was,

it's, everybody's in a good mood.

When you hear about a
reduction in the budget.

That right there, it gets
everybody off on the right foot.

I would say that the industry
made, I thought the industry made

some pretty constructive comments
to chairman Houtman about how the

agency needs to prioritize resources.

There were, there was, there
were some adults in the room.

I thought it was smart.

A lot of smart commentary.

I think the undercurrent might.

The one takeaway I would have is, that's
an undercurrent of caution would be, we

wanna make sure that the reduction in
revenue and resources doesn't lead to.

Cutting corners on the supervisory part.

And I think we all know that, prioritizing
more complex credit unions makes sense.

And Alonzo especially knows, and mark,
you, you both know this from the exam

side you prioritize complex credit unions,
but a lot of losses unfortunately occur

in some of the smaller institutions.

I don't know how to, I don't
know how to balance that

Treichel: well and there was one
commenter about, small credit unions.

You shouldn't have to go on site.

And that's where the fraud can happen.

Alonzo.

You think of back in, in the days
when, you get a phone call and it's

the credit union's balance sheet
says it's 18 million, but it's not.

And all of a sudden something that.

Looked like it was a place that you
could skip over or spend a little

bit of time turned into a place
that you should have been spending

more time from the beginning on.

Any thoughts on that Alonzo?

Swann: Yeah.

You always have to balance your risk
and one of the big major changes, of

course, when I was an examiner believe
it, or for the first two years until

I volunteered, I never traveled.

So everything was local.

I could I went to same credit
unions over and over again, knew the

people, which I think is the most
important thing you get from onsite.

It's not going in there
to look at the books.

It's getting to know the people and
looking out the corner of your eyes

and that's one of the things you miss.

And one of the other things I miss, 'cause
I had predominantly small credit unions,

is that many times I had to help them.

And I had time to do that.

Not much, even though I learned
that old Chinese fish story,

so we got that rectified.

But I think that's gonna be
missing when you just stop in.

I I'd like to think wise enough to know
it was different in some cases, but I

think that assistance that I provided
made them look forward to me coming.

And it did.

It wasn't the amount of time I stayed,
I think it was just the comfort.

I always said if I were
on the credit union board.

And I always told them this I'm the
person who comes in and checks your

weight to see whether you gained any or
lost any or whether you remain the same.

So that view, I think, is
going to be missing that side.

Look out the side of your eyes.

That's what you're gonna miss when when
you go a long time in between visits.

Treichel: Sure.

Yeah.

And you're in the credit union,
you're glad they're not coming.

But when you're the regulator and
you're not there as much or you're

not on site the pen, and we have.

Yeah, are we have, you look at the Wall
Street Journal, you look at Bloomberg

CU Today info or whatever you hear
different pockets of delinquency is

going in this direction, and then we
hear the layoffs and different things.

So they're shrinking at a time
that, at least the big and maybe

the middle size credit unions are
glad they're not coming in as much.

But the pendulum of having less staff
and doing less swings back historically

with losses that then have a new
board say maybe we need more staff.

And so those pendulums will swing.

And Jeff, you were on the board what's
your thought on on, on the budget and

anything that might have been said last
week or just your take on it in general?

Bacino: I think, obviously credit
unions are happy anytime you cut the

budget and I'm gonna go out on a limb.

I think the last time it was cut
happened to be when Dennis and

Yolanda and I were on the board.

It, it does take a
concerted effort to do it.

They have had some advantages.

You lose 20% of your staff.

And I don't think what people are
focusing on is you're also not

paying two board members as well
as their executive assistants and

their administrative assistants.

So you do have a little
bit of savings there.

Look, if you're talking about trying
to just pinch pennies, you all of

a sudden have, two thirds of your
salary at the board level taken out.

I do think it's important for credit
unions to realize a couple things.

Number one, obviously the budget
is decided every year they will.

Sometimes you guys at the agency will
sometimes go in at a six month mark,

and so what you're seeing now, as you
just said, might change when you get.

A complete board.

In other words, you might get three
board members and they say, wait a

minute, we think we've had too many
losses over the last six months.

We need to beef this up.

So in a way it's I guess a
temporary high to be sure.

But from a credit union's individual
standpoint, I've heard from a lot

of them that, you know, yes, they
enjoy not seeing the examiners often.

That's great.

But I've also heard.

What you're seeing is two things.

Number one, sometimes the examiner's
just checking a box, checking a

list, saying, okay, do you have this?

Do you have this?

And and then focusing, I hate to
say this, on the wrong things.

Again, I think it's probably
most likely because of a

little bit of an inexperience.

And Alonzo, you did this a long time.

Mark, you followed this for a long time.

You re that you reach a
comfort level with your.

Examined credit unions, and I
think we're losing that right now.

One of the things that I heard from my
internal audit group was they're seeing

that some of the examiners are coming in,
and as I said, they're checking the boxes.

But the reality is they're not
digging deep enough and they leave

and the internal auditor say, wait a
minute, we still have these problems.

Management is saying,
no, they said we're good.

It's gonna, it's gonna remain to
be seen, obviously, what happens

over the next couple months.

But I think it's really gonna be
interesting to see what happens

when you get a full board.

Treichel: Sure.

And Alonza, you'll think of it, I
think this will resonate with you.

The concept of a lighter touch,
you're hear less hours, you're hear

less hours, you're hear less hours,
and then the next time there's some

stats and the numbers are worse
and you show up with more people.

And the examiners point out, Hey,
four years ago you did something

that violates the Federal Credit
Union Act and we didn't catch it.

But you've been doing it wrong for
four years, and the credit union

instinctively says you didn't
bring it up for four years, and

now all of a sudden it's my fault.

Isn't that your job to point it out?

And as Bob Blattner what said.

Yeah the sovereign can always correct
itself and say, Hey, we missed the

boat for three years and now we're
here to say that you can't do this.

And you'll see that, when a new
examiner comes in, when you're not

as familiar with the credit union.

And if you're doing less of a deep
dive, even if it's the same one,

all of a sudden you have to dig a
little bit deeper two years down.

So it's great right now to not have
'em coming in as much, but there's

unintended consequences of that.

And Alonzo, any thoughts on that?

Swann: I agree with you.

And just to get back to the big
board, board picture, 'cause I do

Treichel: Yeah.

Swann: Want to just comment on that.

I think the our country via the
Constitution was built on compromise.

I think you just find things, when my
priority is this and yours is that,

let's find a way to get to a win-win.

And it's no different during the exam
process as well, but I think that's

what you miss when you don't have
the other two board members there.

And it's the look out
the corner of your eye.

I want to go left.

And you normally have somebody
on your right there to say

maybe you shouldn't go that way.

Now you don't.

And that debate of the of policies
and procedures, regulations, whatever,

is I think was healthy and is healthy
for not only the NCA Board, other

boards, but our country as well.

I think that's the downside of
not having a full compliment.

As the chairman always has.

More of the gavel, if you will,
but than one person on their side.

But you still have to accommodate
those on the other side as well.

So I think there's just that banter
that happened during the board meetings,

those disagreements that happened.

Why while you may not
like sitting through.

Two and three hour board meetings, but
it's the final product that counts.

And if it if it's a compromise that makes
for a better product, I think we're better

As far as the exam itself, I like I said,
I think if you stick to the material

things as an examiner, normally, you miss
a regulation and you can always say, Hey,

unless it impacts you in a major way.

I'm just pointing it out now and
we just need to get it fixed.

I focused as an examiner and I
think most, at least I tried to get

my examiners when I was regional
director to focus on the material.

Treichel: Yep.

Swann: And like I said, I there's not
many material issues that are going to

affect credit unions and that's how you
explain when you find it immaterial.

One.

I wasn't looking for it, quite frankly.

That's one you should have called,

Treichel: right?

Said.

Said.

John.

I can see you've got something to add

McKechnie: here.

Yeah, I was thinking Alonzo
stimulated some thoughts.

I also had at the budget briefing.

It wasn't explicitly addressed
during the briefing, but you wonder.

If there's gonna be a look at cost savings
that are maybe partially generated by

the fact you don't have as much staff.

People are talking about the ones
program, for instance, how they,

that may be a, may be changed in
some way, if not done away with.

I haven't heard that come out at any,
anybody at the board level over there.

But you wonder if the number
of regions might even go down.

Again I don't know.

I'm asking these questions rhetorically
not because I know some inside

information, but I just think
these are the kind of things that.

Probably you're gonna be on
the table and at least thought

about as we move into next year.

Treichel: Yeah, there was, and they're
doing a review and a study and they

have some money in the budget to.

To take a look at that.

So yeah, they are.

And then, you know what
board will do that, right?

Because let's say you were gonna get
rid of ones that's a regulation change.

Or if you're gonna change the structure of
ones then you get into that whole what's

essential, what can one board member do?

What's a quorum?

What e even if you conclude that you.

Might be able to do it
as a board member of one.

Do you wanna do it as a board member of
one and then have somebody else come back

and question whether you can, so they

McKechnie: get a little

Treichel: complicated?

McKechnie: That's a legit all fair point.

So I will say the one thing I've heard
from agency, legal staff is that they look

at the Department of Justice filing in one
of the, one of the board members appeals

between Todd Harper and Tony Otsuka.

And the DOJ one of the, one of the filings
from DOJ said, we consider a single

member board to be a quorum of one.

Meaning DOJ is saying they can do
rulemaking and so they can do rulemaking.

But you're right, that's,
that seems to be very possibly

challenged in some future court.

So it's we are in an uncertain
period on that front.

Treichel: Yeah.

A DOJ says that, and for the
longest time we thought a board

member could only have one term.

And then that term was redefined
as if you had one day, less than

six years that wasn't the term.

And you can get another six year term.

So you can get 11 years, 365 days.

It was, I don't know if that was DOJ
who opined that maybe was Biden's, that

McKechnie: was a Biden White House.

Legally.

Treichel: Okay.

Yeah.

But everything, there's all
that, there's all that subterfuge

or legal opinion, whatever you
wanna call it behind the scenes.

Bacino: Well Mark, you asked one of
the other questions you asked about

was anything new on the legal front?

Treichel: Yes.

Bacino: And while I am not a lawyer
and I don't play one on tv, I do

know that there's the case of Rebecca
Slaughter, who I think is the FTC, the

commissioner that the administration
fired the Supreme Court has decided

to hear her case on December 8th.

And lawyers that I know all
say, look, that's a precursor.

To the NCUA case.

There was also a story today that
the, some of the lawyers have asked

Supreme Court to look at this and
decide if they're going to take it on.

So all those things start
to enter into the timetable.

The unfortunate thing is you're
probably not looking at anything

past the first of the year, at
best, before you've got a decision.

Now I think the question still comes up.

Chairman Hopman term expired in August.

Treichel: Yeah.

Bacino: And he and Sarah can have
bang been doing, I think yeoman's

work in keeping everything going.

But it make him a point when he says,
you know what, I'm moving on too,

and he brought this up at the start
of the previous board meeting where

he said you could get down to zero.

I think the same kind of legal questions
come up with either one or zero, which is.

Let's say you pass a rag, what's to stop a
credit union or anyone from suing later on

to saying it wasn't legally decided upon.

So you got a whole bunch of things
that are happening now and again,

it's, as John said, we are unchartered
waters and we really are, because

again, the previous norms don't hold.

And if the administration's allowed
to get rid of the two Democratic board

members and then put two board members of
whatever party they want into that place,

because evidently the act doesn't apply.

So why would you want it
to apply in terms of party?

Ah, it's

Treichel: just the act.

Bacino: Yeah.

It's in terms of party but
again, as a former board member.

I would be really worried about that.

From a personal standpoint,
I lived in this area.

It was easy for me to do this, but if
you're coming, from somewhere else,

and you've gotta make a decision
about uprooting your family, moving

people, I don't, I think you're gonna
lose a lot of people who would even

consider it if they know that President
changing party, or worse yet, just

getting upset with what your decision
was, you could be out of a job.

Treichel: And you talk
about going, zero, right?

We have one board member right now.

He he gets hit by a bus.

There are zero board members, he
resigns, gets a better job, wants to

go do something else where he, whatever
he goes and does, if it's outside of

government, he is gonna make more than
he's making as a board member, right?

So he's got all of those
personal situations going on.

And Alonzo Ima imagine walking into work
as executive director of NCA and you go,

okay, now there are no board members.

We were wondering what a one board office.

Had the authority to do or not do,
what do I as executive director, as a

staff member, have the ability to do?

Even though the de the
delegation says if the.

If a plane goes down with all the board
members, the executive director has

the authority, and oh, by the way the,
we don't know the executive, current

executive director could be taking
the buyout by the end of the year.

Maybe not, but certainly everybody
would reflect on their down 23%.

There are no board members that
could get a little chaotic here.

Should help him decide to walk.

Swann: Agree with what you totally we're.

It's a quite frankly, it from the
staffing perspective, it's just a

matter of you just do what you do.

And there's a lot of things that
we, like you said, probably would've

done differently, but the power.

The power of the federal Credit Union
Act is vested in the NCUA board.

I always remembered that as

Treichel: Never violate the delegations
established by a board that's no longer

there, maybe you still have the authority.

It gets kind.

The higher up you are as if you're
the highest staff member at NSU

a, that would, I would be losing
a lot of sleep with no board.

It's good to have that
one board member there.

And I can't see Kyle walking away, 'cause

McKechnie: Well,

Treichel: no, he committed to
the next step in his journey.

McKechnie: I don't know
anything firsthand.

I do the one conversation I've had with
the administration in the last few weeks.

Is that, they're cognizant of the
fact we have one board member.

We, they're cognizant of the fact that
he's serving in a holdover capacity.

And beyond that, I think everything's
somewhat frozen in place until

the Supreme Court decides that
Humphrey's executor case Sure.

Treichel: That we've

McKechnie: spoken about on
your podcast in the past.

What if, but that, that may not happen.

That a decision in that may not occur.

As late as ne next June.

That's a long time to be in this
uncertainty, but it's possible.

We've had a single member board with one
day exception since April of last year.

Life goes on.

Treichel: That it does.

Everybody has a little bit of
connection with Federal Home Loan Bank.

They really stood up and provide some
liquidity opportunities back a few years

ago when there were liquidity challenges
at institutions and then following

Silicon Valley Bank and different things.

It it's it's an amazing,
resource for credit unions.

Any general thoughts on what you guys
are seeing out there as it relates

to the financial use of Federal home
loan bank or liquidity, et cetera?

Swann: I like to think I've been a
part of this, but I think the use of

federal home loan banks by credit unions
has risen exponentially over the 12

years I've been with Atlanta's bank.

I, it comes from more
understanding, just understanding

it over the last couple years.

Let me, lemme step back.

'cause my in my initial years I, I
was recruiting credit unions to join

and as I told them, it's a benefit
that I'm going to tell you a lot of

positives from having, and I'm gonna
give you a short list of negatives and

the short list of negatives is none.

And a long list of positives.

So I would go through that.

But probably the biggest obstacle, one of
the biggest obstacles I had was pushback

from NCA examiners, to be quite frank
on the value of joining the NCA board.

I'm sorry, federal Home Loan Bank.

Bacino: Yep.

Swann: And but fast forward to today
and over the last couple years.

I've gotten a lot of, we've gotten
a lot of new members in Atlanta.

I don't know about the other 10
banks, but we've gotten a lot of

new members based on recommendations
that they joined from NCUA examiners.

I, I think, the value of being a
member, like I tell folk all the

time, if the big ones are doing it you
should figure out a way to do it too.

So I think we're just
seeing that and obviously.

Through the COVID period
and SVB bank episode.

I think just the value of being a
member of Federal Home Loan Bank has

come up to speed in everybody's mind.

I spent the last couple weeks in a
hundred, in the a hundred million dollar

range credit unions and a couple sub
hundred million, and we were talking

strategy on how to use the bank.

We have affordable
housing products as well.

Just learning those things.

We're just seeing, like I said, the
value coming up exponentially and how

to fit it in into your strategic plan.

As we like to say, we're not a vendor.

We're your strategic partner.

You do good.

We do good.

We're a co-op just like you.

I'm seeing that more, that understanding
come up to speed, if you will.

Treichel: That's great.

John, Jeff, any thoughts on that?

McKechnie: I wouldn't, I wanna mention.

Alonzo covered the waterfront on
Homeland Bank and before Jeff goes,

I just wanna mention, we just got a
credit union's work to get some congress

to do something good on the clf.

That's something we don't talk
about much unless there's a problem.

But just got a little bit of a
modernization provision put into the

defense bill that would expand the
ability of the CLF to be more flexible.

I know that's not an exciting topic,
but I remember very well in the early

days of the crisis in 2008 when that
started washing up on the shore, that

was a liquidity problem much more than
a capital asset problem initially.

So one day we're all gonna be
grateful that the CLF is more.

More agile, faster on its feet, still
has to become law because the defense

bill hasn't passed both chambers yet.

But the corporates were
very involved in that.

I know defense credit Union
Council got very involved in that.

It's, it's an, it is an
important if our can issue.

I just wanted to throw on the table.

Treichel: No, great point, Jeff.

Bacino: I was gonna say when I joined
the finance board, be blunt, I knew

what the federal home loan banks did.

I didn't know exactly
how well they did it.

And you know when the financial crisis
started in 2007, and I always use that

date because that's when our economist
came to me and said, our advances

are up tremendous over the last.

A couple months, I think I've told this
story to you guys before, and my question

to him was, is that good news or bad news?

He goes I think it's bad news.

And sure enough it was, is we
started to enter that crisis.

But I'll tell you what, the Federal Home
Loan banks initially were probably about

the only source of liquidity for a lot
of institutions, including credit unions.

And as I said I've grown
to become a big supporter.

Alonzo mentioned how they're cooperatives.

They're really as much a
cooperative as a credit union.

And, and so I'm hoping that
credit unions continue looking at

them as a source of assistance.

The interesting thing was yesterday
the administration mentioned that they

were looking at a 50 year mortgage
and federal Housing Finance Authority.

The successor of my agency came
out in big support of that.

And I think when you start to talk
about housing and the role that,

that Fannie Freddie and the Federal
Home Loan banks can play in that.

I'm not sure going to a 50 year
mortgage is gonna be the solution.

Treichel: That's not the best
way to achieve affordability.

I, i is what you're saying.

I would tend to agree with that.

I think England has a 50 50 year
so we know it can't be a good idea.

Swann: Don't they add
that up in Minnesota too.

Mark, mark.

Just kidding.

Just kidding.

Treichel: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

McKechnie: Now did you guys see,
though, today there was news that

Fannie Mae has decided to drop
their credit score threshold down

to people with a six 20 score?

And I have to admit, that's one
of those things that just sent

a chill down my spine in a sense
that, history sometimes repeats.

I'm not predicting, I'm not smart enough
or knowledgeable enough about the housing

market to predict a problem, but man,
I, that kind of thing I think could lend

to maybe some credit quality problems.

It got my attention.

Treichel: Yeah.

And then the other side too,
Alonzo I would agree, depending

on how you do it, you can make a
good loan to someone of six 20.

But what are the other
parameters around it?

But the affordable housing situation
with regulations that make it

harder for people to get their
properties up to speed because of

regulations that are on top auto.

There, there's so many homes a year that
go out of circulation and there's not

enough being built that then circling
back to something Alonzo said about

the there, I know the federal home
loan banks have some sort of goal.

An objective to providing
specific money and grants and

things for affordable housing.

Do I have that right?

Lonzo?

Swann: Absolutely.

By statute.

All federal home loan banks have to
put 10% of their profit every year

back into affordable housing products.

And all of the banks over the
last couple years have actually.

Went over 10.

They have the board of the
federal home loan banks have the

ability to take it up higher.

And I know in Atlanta we went up to 15%
last year and we when you go above 10,

the rules are set on what you can do.

But when you go above 10, you
can design products that may

fit your space a little better.

Oh,

Treichel: sure.

Yeah.

Swann: That's what we've done and we saw
use uses of the product just explode.

And our board has added additional
funding to try to keep up.

But it's been fun to watch and like
I said, just the advance side credit

unions are coming up to speed on it.

We have a few who have been planning
the space for a long time and now we're

getting more and more every day that are
using those affordable housing products.

Treichel: That's great.

That's great.

Swann: And when you cobbled that
with the last couple years after

SVB, quite frankly, being a liquidity
disaster, it was we've been having

record record breaking profits.

When you go back to 2021, during
COVID, it was 10% of a little bit,

but 23, 24, 25 was, it was 10%.

It was actually 15% of a lot

Treichel: of a big number.

Swann: Yeah.

Treichel: That's fantastic.

So speaking of a big number the budget
or the government's running outta money

and they and they had to shut us down,
the government down, but it looks like

the Senate has voted to reopen and you
politic, you guys who follow politics more

than me know that once the Senate says it,
the house basically has to come in town.

Do the same thing.

They don't put it that way, but
it seems like the house is high

school and the Senate is college
the college seniors voting.

But thoughts on the, where we're
at with that what it might mean

or not mean for credit unions
that the government's back open.

McKechnie: I don't know when this
is gonna be aired, but tomorrow.

Okay.

This is we're recording it
on Veteran's Day Tuesday.

Supposedly the house is
gonna vote sometime tomorrow

afternoon or early evening.

This.

Still to reopen.

The government may actually
be on the President's desk

tomorrow night, Wednesday.

And I hope that happens.

I'm flying tomorrow, so I'm
really interested in that.

But I don't know what le I don't know if
there's a lesson I will mention that a

lot of credit unions were very interested
in what might happen with the community

development financial institution fund.

And that's apparently going
to be restored to some degree.

This new agreement and hopefully
there will be enough staff in the

building to administer that fund
to treasury when things get back

to normal, whatever normal means,

Treichel: whatever the new normal is.

Yeah.

Interesting.

What else guys, is there, are there
any topics that have been big in

credit unions that you, we want to
tackle here before we predict who

wins the football games next week?

Bacino: I would, I'll go back
to John's comment for a minute

about the government shutdown.

I think obviously,
it's, it's both parties.

Okay.

Anyone who wants to try to tell
you it's not is frankly lying.

And John will probably back me
lately what surveys have shown

is that whereas in the past.

The general American populace
would pick one party to blame.

Now it's they're picking 'em both,
which I guess is fair because I

said I think it's both of them.

And mark, you said that the Senate was
college and the house was was high school.

It is, and again, mainly due to
the filibuster that you've gotta.

Get over in the Senate side.

But what's gonna be interesting,
obviously, speaker speaker Johnson

has kept the house out of session,

Treichel: right?

Bacino: Since this happened.

Now there are some that are in the
conspiracy theory that says he kept it

out because otherwise he's got a swear in
the new congressperson from Arizona who.

Be the 218th signature on
the Epstein file opening.

So you got a whole lot of things going
on in town and a cover on top of that.

You've got the elections from
a week ago today in Virginia

and in New Jersey, and then the
California redistricting proposal.

And obviously Democrats did very
well, which, if you're a Democrat, you

look at that and say that's a trend.

And if you're a Republican, you
look at it and say those were.

Purple and blue trending states.

Anyway, so it doesn't matter.

The reality is it matters
only until probably about.

Two a couple weeks from now.

You can't extrapolate out, but the
one thing that I think the Democrats

are finding from this shutdown is
they're gonna have to figure out a

way in the midterms in 26 to pick
up at least one of the two chambers.

They gotta pick up the house or they
gotta pick up the Senate because

without either of them, without the
White House, you pretty much are

at the mercy of the other party.

And, frankly, for the most part, I think
Republicans do a better job of Democrats

of holding the fort, and so I think it's
gonna be incumbent if Democrats want to

change the focus, especially heading into
the 2028 presidential election that I know

nobody really wants to talk about now,
but I think the Democrats are, have to

try to figure out a way come out or high
water to when at least one, ideally they'd

like to, with both chambers coming at 26.

Treichel: John Alonso,
any thoughts on that?

Swann: John, you go ahead.

You the,

McKechnie: well,

Swann: that's your lane.

McKechnie: It, yeah, we don't have much
else to go on than to, to predict the

future than what happened last Tuesday.

So it's a good way to look at it.

There's midterms usually hard on the
White House, the party that holds the

White House New Jersey and Virginia.

Red.

Jeff said they're bluish, purplish.

I think they're both kind of
democratic STA states now that

Virginia, with the exception of
the last governor's race has been.

Very democratic state at the statewide
level for most of this century.

So I'm not surprised they
won the governor's race there

again in New Jersey as well.

You got a socialist mayor in New York now.

Whatever we want to do to
read tea leaves, it's fun.

Not sure how useful.

It is, but it's, it is all we got to go
on, like I said, until next November when

we're gonna have a midterm to deal with,

Treichel: the socialist mayor, candidate
of Minneapolis did not get in though.

So that's, the tide is
turning there in Minneapolis.

McKechnie: Yeah.

That's great.

And you didn't, but you didn't
elect a conservative Republican

to replace to It was a very, it
was the left hand didn't know what

the far left hand was doing there.

Treichel: And Jeff, when you bring up
Epstein, which I think is the first time

that's been brought up on the podcast,

Bacino: give it to

me.

Treichel: Of course.

You're talking about Mike Epstein, the
slugging first basement of the seventies.

That was part-timer for
the Oakland A's, and he

McKechnie: played with the Orioles.

At first he

Treichel: was, he was an Oreo.

Of course.

He, everybody was an orle back then.

McKechnie: Sure.

Bacino: Now his files are a little
different than obviously former.

Treichel: Yeah.

Bacino: Jeffrey Epstein,

Treichel: the Mike Epstein files.

Bacino: Yes, the 20
minutes, that's the run.

That's what the White House
should do is release his files.

Just go.

We gave but John did talk about,
John did talk about Virginia and

New Jersey being basically allow.

I'll concede that
they're more blue states.

The one thing that did impress me though
both of them, both both candidates,

Cheryl and Bamberger out polled Harris
and everybody else that running in

that state in a while as a Democrat.

Governor Murphy in, in New Jersey barely
won election reelection four years ago.

So I think if, again, I will go back
to my point, Democrats are gonna need

to figure out a way to right the ship.

Otherwise it's gonna be real tough
sledding for them heading into 28.

It was good news as John says, it's
really only good for a while and it is

and frankly, November 26 is, is still.

A year away.

So

I

McKechnie: don't think that, and by
the way, Jeff, you're right about

even more right about Virginia because
they, Democrats now have the biggest

majority in the State House of delegates
that anybody has had in 40 years.

They got a big, it was a
big night for the Democrats.

I'm not arguing that it's it was, if I
were a Democrat, I would be very happy.

Swann: Yeah.

I think just to put my 2 cents in as
a regular citizen, if you will I think

what really won is moderate politics.

And that's where it's gonna come down.

So if you have two moderates
running against each other, one

Republican, one Democrat, you
could probably get a closer race.

But if you have somebody who has been
branded on the, either the left or

the right I think the, is picking
the one that's closest to the middle,

if you will, if that makes sense.

I'm moderate.

I swing both sides.

I'm not voting for a French
candidate on either side.

So I think that's what the election
probably showed us that was the

big predictor of the midterms.

It's gonna come down to candidates.

Treichel: As it should.

That's great.

I like that.

I like that.

Take Very good guys.

I'm gonna predict, let's see
the Vikings and the Bears.

Oh gosh.

31, 30 Vikings

Bacino: Let you go first.

Swann: No, I got The Bears will score 27
points and the Vikings will just score 17.

Treichel: Okay.

27 17, Jeff.

Bacino: If last, the last two
weeks of Bears Games have been any

indication, this is gonna come down
to something that's pretty close.

And as a Bear fan, I'll
take the Bears 24 20.

Treichel: 24 20.

And John, you can either opine
on our teams or you can tell

us how the Ravens are gonna do.

McKechnie: We're playing the Browns, which
on paper I think everybody's gonna give.

The Ravens designate us as their
favorites, but they always play us tough.

And it's in Cleveland and
we lost there last year.

So I'm not gonna predict I'm
a natural, such a natural

pessimist when it comes to sports.

I'm just gonna keep my mouth shut.

Bacino: Yeah, I'll do

Swann: this.

It's the Ravens Browns this week.

McKechnie: Yeah.

Swann: Oh, that's gonna be
like the game last night.

Green Bay.

Green Bay, Philadelphia.

Game zero zero.

Halftime.

Treichel: Another ten seven coming.

Swann: Yeah.

Bacino: And we'll predict this though,
that the Ravens will win the division.

McKechnie: Alright.

Treichel: Yes,

McKechnie: I like that.

Bacino: I'll give you that.

McKechnie: I like it.

Swann: That the lions will win.

We'll win our division.

Treichel: Yeah.

Lion's got us even though we beat them.

For the record, let me, that was
our be, that was our Super Bowl.

All right guys, as always,
this has been fantastic.

I wanna thank you all for being available
and we'll do this again down the road.

Good to see the three of
you all on one screen,

Bacino: four horse movie, apocalypse.

Treichel: All of the ayp episode
is, it Will Be Live tomorrow.

And listeners, I want to thank you
for listening and or watching Mark

reel, signing off with flying colors.