Credit Union Exam Solutions Presents With Flying Colors

mark: Hey everyone, this is
Mark T Trike with another

episode of With Flying Colors.

I'm excited today to be here with
David Reed of Reed and Jolly David.

How are you today?

I'm doing great Mark.

And it's a pleasure to be on.

I appreciate it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think a while back, maybe at the
beginning, beginning of the year,

end of last year, we chatted about
collections and all the things that were

going on related to n NCAA's, priority
ladder, and on asset quality and had

a really fun conversation around that.

And of course, I've known you since
my days at NCA when you helped us on

some strategic planning facilitation
with our senior executives.

Had a lot of fun back in the

david: days,

mark: back in the day, right?

Yeah.

Boy, time flies, man.

And and you shot me a note about N NCAA's
succession planning rule coming up here.

And I know you're out and about.

You're out right now getting
ready to chat with That's

david: exactly right.

I'm in beautiful Maine for
their volunteer conference.

And and it's a hot topic.

mark: It is a hot topic, and one
of the reasons it's hot is because

January one NCAA's rule becomes, yeah.

So all federally insured credit
unions get on board all federally.

That's that's feds and states
all across the country.

And you're out there helping
them understand what it means

and what it doesn't mean.

So let's tee that up.

The, there's the a as, as we were
chatting earlier there's the paper

of, how do you build a policy, right?

And all that.

And then there's the.

There's the reality of, okay, what does
that mean and how do we implement it?

So where do you wanna go first on that?

You wanna go with let's,

david: let's just start
let's just start there.

It's policy versus practice.

And as you mentioned, so I roam
the countryside working with credit

unions all across the country.

I'm a credit union kind of guy, and
whether it's speaking at a conference or.

If it's my role for a number of
credit unions I'm the board's council,

so not the corporate council, but
I'm the council for the board.

So attending board meetings,
helping them with things.

And so this topic comes up over and over
again, and where I have seen a little bit,

I would call a disconnect, would be that.

Lots of people on, okay, how to dress,
how to, draft your policy, here are the

key components of it, and ev and, God
bless 'em all, they're cutting out of

the executive summary of the sure of
the rule and just, giving it to you.

And then I will see people when they
begin to talk about the nuts and bolts.

It is typically focused on one of
two areas, and they're both related.

One is going to be executive retention.

That is the CEO and going beyond.

And I know you'll, get a kick
outta this little gallows humor.

But, going beyond the hit
by a bus scenario, right?

For, okay, who's your number two and what
happens in an emergency situation going

beyond that career pathing identifying
the sets of skills and all that.

And then the other bucket is you have
a lot of people out there now, they

talk about golden handcuffs, right?

They talk about split dollars.

They talk about, the various plans
that you can utilize in order

to attract and retain people.

And if you have lightning in a bottle
with the CEO, first of all, God bless

you, you wanna make sure that this, 50
something CEO stays with you for a while.

So you implement those items and people
will talk about that and talk about it's

an investment and all these other things.

And one of the things that I see
that's lacking over and over again

is, okay, let's talk about volunteers.

And we'll get to this a little bit, but
you've been in a number of boardrooms.

I've been in a number of boardrooms.

Typically, when you look around,
shall we say most boards are stable.

mark: Stable.

That's a, yeah.

Stable.

That's a last half that's here

david: a euphemism.

And so what I say is that everybody's
talking about the policy or the

paper, and very few people are talking
about the practice, about, it's the

dark side of succession planning.

So I think that's a
good place to tee it up.

mark: Very good.

Yeah.

So the, yeah, so the paper
you gotta have the policy, the

regulation goes who it covers.

There was some changes in who it covered.

And so on.

And on the executive side, it's
interesting because a, as I look at it,

as a former examiner, former executive
at NCUA I was always about this could

be done via a letter to credit unions
versus a regulation, but I didn't

view it as, okay, what are the tools.

That are going to allow me
to keep my executives around.

'cause there's, there, there's
pay and compensation and benefits.

Which to me is it, I guess I hadn't
thought of it that way, but of course if

you're trying to retain them and you're
gonna have succession planning, yeah.

You wanna have a good number two in
line, you gotta pay the number two.

And I get all, I get that side of it.

And I guess I, I looked
at it from the side of.

On that side of it was
the smaller credit union.

Sometimes they have the CEO slash manager
and then that's the highest paid person

and they can't really afford a good number
to, and that, that creates some issues,

which I think is maybe the lens of a Todd
Harper foreman into a board member is

you need to, there's too many mergers.

When the CEO retires,
there's nobody in line.

You're gonna do that.

That's exactly

david: right.

As a matter of fact I believe that
Todd had said that at the meeting

that this was launched, he said that,
of course, the NCUA a as part of

their mission, they wanna look at the
stability of leadership and all of that.

And so they, they did the root
cause analysis of a lot of different

mergers, and they found especially
at smaller shops that the reason

for a good number of these mergers.

Was the fact that there was no
there was no number two, there

was no good succession plan.

And they, he also went
went so far as the mission.

While it is a bit rarer, but I've
certainly seen it, you have a five person

board and suddenly three of 'em kinda
look around and said, you know what?

I'm.

I am done.

We are all of a certain age our
CEO our manager's 10 years younger,

we're not even gonna give an option.

We always get invite.

And you know how this works too.

We always get invited to lunch at
the annual meeting and that other

credit union says, you know what?

How would you guys like to
have a three year, reign as a

as an advisory board for us?

And we'll just merge into you guys.

We'll keep all your employees
and next thing we have another

business unit that, that's gone.

So it is, I sometimes
compare it to 7 0 1 0.4

which came about, I think in 2007 or 2008,
talks about board duties and authorities.

It, that the reason that came about.

Let's face it, n NCAA a's been
around since whatever, 70, 71, and

it took until 2008 to get this rule.

Why?

Because when we first met, I call it, I
still call it the recent unpleasantness.

There's the corporate credit union
issues, mortgage backed securities

and things like that, but.

You had all those credit
unions that failed.

And in the after action report, of
course, it's done as a regular part

a as the manager of the National
Credit Union Share Insurance Fund.

The NCA found overwhelmingly that a lot
of boards weren't being active enough.

They were not asking the proper questions.

They did not understand risk appetite.

And a good part of that was ta-da,
not a good enough reading of the

financials, especially trend analysis.

And so what happens, 7 0 1 specifically
puts that out and that's where

we are in succession planning.

I think it was hit dead
on that it's an issue.

Smaller credit union.

It goes without saying, which of
course, anytime somebody says that,

especially a lawyer, we have to say it.

But so a smaller shop the manager's
been there for 25 years, maybe longer.

Maybe been there since she was a teller.

mark: Right.

david: And she's been
running it, it's her life.

It's her, it is her her youngest child.

And and the number two, who's been
there for, let's say 10 years.

Loves the credit union, committed
to it, loves number one, but has

no desire for her life path to
be what the manager's path is.

So if somebody ask her what to do, if
that, is that something you wanna do?

No, I'll be number two.

mark: Right?

david: Or, the next thing you know, maybe
this is going into too much detail is

that, number two gets it automatically
and either they're not well suited for it.

It or the board comes in and says we'll
give you a 10% bump from where you are.

That should be really good.

They say wait a second.

What I was before was operations
and now I'm everything.

mark: And

david: suddenly, it just,
it doesn't end well.

mark: And now when the alarms go off, it's
me that has to go in on Saturday morning.

There

david: you go.

I made a joke about that today.

I made a joke about about being
called in with the credit union

with less than 24 hours notice.

And the opening line was we, and I won't
even mention his name, I'll just say.

Rhode Island's own.

Who did the Wicked Kennedy impression?

The he was the, I think the
associate regional director

in charge of supervision.

And the board chair said
they've asked for a meeting.

They don't want our CEO there.

What does that sound like?

And I said, bad news say, I
see that look on your face.

And only people that
have been through that.

And i, I go out and and just meet
with the board and talk to 'em about a

bunch of things, including succession,
because surprise, they had two empty

chairs on their board and other issues

mark: yeah.

And and you'd also mentioned
we're all of a certain age, right?

I I don't go on Facebook a lot, but I have
a group from high school that's my class.

And and they're

david: all older than you, right?

You're looking right.

They're all,

mark: man, they all look old, right?

But occasionally, guys, the only news
you have there is, hey, it's the x number

of party, and I don't go back for it.

But anyway, we're having
the party this time, or.

So I sad news to report so
and joke oh, there you go.

So and so passed away, right?

So the circle of, so you
have boards that are falling.

You may, maybe you got
a five member board.

You got two 70 year olds, two 60 year
olds and the young guy who's 59, right?

And Right.

Brand new The baby.

The baby, yeah.

They've been grooming him since he was on
the supervisory committee 15 years ago.

Correct.

And you sit down as a group like
that and say you need to have the

succession planning for your board.

How do you tackle that?

What kind of nuances and
challenges do they have?

How do you get them to understand.

They need some new, obviously they
go, yeah, we probably could get

somebody, but this is how, we're
the only ones who wanna do it.

They think sometimes,

david: Oh my gosh, let's lead
off, let's lead off with that.

So that's what I hear.

I hear this over and over again.

And I've done a number of different
workshops, a number of different

projects because, I speak on I call
the topic building a deeper bench.

So succession planning just ran
right into my my arms, so to speak.

And now I, I get a lot of calls
to help people out with this.

And and again, like I said, a number
of credit unions, in addition to,

being outside general counsel are
different from being outside general

counsel, where they're asking me about,
compliance issues or things like that.

Now the board has me as their counsel now,
they're asking me about stuff like this.

And it's universally starts out
with we can't find volunteers.

mark: And I,

david: and I say, and I typically
try to say, and you know me, Emma.

I'm a relatively plainspoken person.

I try to guard back my my observation
of what I consider to be the

obvious, but I, what I say to
them is you need to look harder.

You need to look harder.

That, that's the, they're out there.

We're a nation of 335 million people.

You yourselves have a hundred
thousand population, right?

You have new members coming in
every month, so you need to look

harder, but you, you hit it, and I
saw recently and you'll love this

it's not a bubble graph, right?

But it's a graph and it showed, it
had two, two data points, right?

One line was was my age right?

And it showed it going up.

Above that is a line that says
my definition of old, and it's

above it and also going up,

mark: right?

david: But in, in any group, right?

And the types of people that would become
members of the board and I'm a recovery

and credit union volunteer myself.

I spent 10 years on a
supervisory committee.

But these are people that are likely
to volunteer for other things in their

community, things at their church,
things in, in, in the business world.

And as you get older and
I found this with myself.

And I, I've just, not that long ago,
crossed over the Magic 60 but as you

get older, the group of people that
you regularly interact with shrinks

mark: Sure.

david: And and now, instead of
going into work every day, and I

experienced this when I left from
being a credit unit executive to

having my own firm that consisted of
all two people that work remotely.

All these people that are your friends
and compatriots, suddenly that's gone.

And now, so now who are
you around every day.

So when you think about who
would be really good about this?

You're not working anymore.

You may not be involved in any of
the community associations anymore.

So maybe you're active at church
and things like that and, but the

people that you hang out with, are
now tending to be your age and have

the same reduced scope, if you will.

And I often point out, you're
right, that's not a great formula.

For finding new people.

And then, we will add in and we
can add this as maybe a separate

conversation topic, but then you start
adding in the concept of diversity.

And by diversity, first of all, I, I
don't want to, I don't wanna trigger

anyone, but what I mean by simply
diversity is different viewpoints.

So it, it's gonna be, it could be
age, it could be sex, it could be

race, it could be national origin.

It could be do you have a disability?

Are you former military?

Do you live in the community?

Do you have you gotten a
loan in the last five years?

Do you know how to use an iPhone?

It could be any.

Any do your own business, and then we can
start getting into all the nitty gritty.

Ooh.

We want an independent business owner.

We want somebody that has it experience.

We want somebody to have accounting.

So as you get all that, you're not
gonna develop that from a five person

board that's been together and the
newest person came on, five years ago.

You, you need a process.

And that's what, it's not an event.

You need a process that can
inventory the community.

And what contacts do you have?

Are you community based?

In which case, where's your
community services board?

Where is your your Salvation Army?

Your do you have local colleges,
high schools in the area?

Where are, the people
that are really active?

And from that, you're now you're
gonna look at your succession plan,

you're gonna do an assessment.

What are we looking for?

And it's not about numbers.

It's not about, oh my gosh, we are
45% Caucasian and 35% Hispanic and

and the remaining is African American.

So that's what we want
the proportion to be.

No, it's not gonna
require, it's gonna inform.

So how do you build a process that
recognizes that in, because from there

you've gotta plug it into nominations.

And I'm surprised, I'm like, oh for
succession planning, I'm like, all

right, let's talk about nomination.

What does that have to do with it?

I'm like.

Because here's what the nominations,
and we're gonna, we're gonna do a we're

gonna do a physical exercise here.

So when these appear, just
remind me, mark are we on camera?

mark: We are.

david: Perfect.

Fold your arms, fold them.

Just fold your arms in front of you.

They're looking at you
already got the parent look.

mark: Yep.

Now

david: heck that you got the regulator.

Look okay.

That's right.

Yeah.

mark: Now

david: unfold them.

Listen carefully, act deliberately
fold them the opposite way.

mark: That's like the thumb exercise.

I don't even know.

I don't think I can.

david: And that's just
muscle memory, right?

Yeah.

So the bottom line is if we've
been doing the same thing over and

over again, we tend to do that.

And if we're gonna change
it, we have to be deliberate.

And that's where it goes from paper.

To practice.

mark: Makes sense.

Yeah.

We've always done it this way, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh my

david: gosh.

The most hated words in even more hated,
by the way, than we're from the federal

government and we're here to help us.

Very help.

It's just always the way we've done it.

mark: That's right.

david: Let me also just say that
'cause you mentioned strategic planning

with the NCA and working with my
wife Diane Reed, the the CU doctor.

We do some strategic
planning and it is just.

Fascinating to tell a group and have
them have the aha moment and say,

listen, if you had a new voice at the
table, and I'm sure we'll get to this,

but they could be an advisory committee
member, they could be a supervisor,

just another voice in the room.

Somebody that says, why
do we do it that way?

And suddenly everybody at the table
looks around and they're like.

Do you know what?

That's a great point.

I have no idea why we do it that way.

We

mark: think NCA told us that 15 exams
ago and we that's exactly right.

Yeah.

david: Good luck finding it in writing.

Yeah.

mark: Yeah.

And we'll change it.

We'll change it when they
tell us they have to.

And oh, by the way.

On succession planning, now you have
to, 'cause there's that's exactly

david: right.

There you go.

There you go.

There we go.

mark: And on the diversity thing, there's
a book I make the title of which I love.

Wisdom of crowds.

And

Oh

yeah.

It's about the diversity of thought and.

And you need to bring different people
to the table to get to the best answer.

And, and the preface of that
book that it's at it's in

England and it's a a town fair.

And the cow.

The cow, right?

Guess the weight of the cow.

You guess the, it's go ahead.

Go ahead.

Say it because you, what you
guess the way to the cow.

And you win.

If you get it right you win, you, you win.

I think you want the cow or you
win some, you win, have part of

the cow or something like that.

But afterwards they took all the
slips of what people guessed and

they added it off, hundreds of them.

And guess what?

That was?

They nailed it on average because
collectively, the people knew.

It's like going to the horse track
and betting, they figure out who

the favorite is, who the second is.

And who the third is.

And over time it plays out you're not,
you're gonna win if you pick the long

shot occasionally, but if you pick the
favorite, you're gonna win more often.

But that's exactly that whole
concept of bringing more.

To the table then, it's been these six
people, five people for forever, right?

And then we go out and find our
friends and who happened, who

happened to think like us so

david: Because let's face it, the,
that goes back into what I was saying

before, what you were intimating, our
filters are this, Hey, guess what, mark?

I'm probably the only person
that thinks this way, but I find

myself more comfortable around
people that are like me, right?

Because everybody else agitates
the heck outta me, right?

So that's just, that is just
that's the way that works.

And let me also throw this in because,
one of the barriers to change in this, not

just, this is always the way we've done
it, but it's this, it's wait a second.

Now you seem to be indicting me.

I'm a great board member.

Hey, young man, I've been
doing this for 35 years.

I've given everything.

I've missed weddings.

I came in here when I was sick as a dog.

I, I I used to do the books and
all of that, and it, and now

you're saying I'm not good enough.

I'm like, so whoa.

No.

It's, if there's no indictment of
you, thank you for your service.

God bless you.

That's how things work.

What I'm saying is.

That there is a time and a season
for everything, so you are great.

What I'm saying is these new
voices, that diversity of thought,

people that can say you know what?

I just logged onto my Chase
app and they came up with three

balloon notes and said, oh, by the
way, we see your cars coming up.

We see that you have a certificate of
deposit, we'd like to offer you something

else, and we've done a quick soft pull of
your credit report and we've determined

that you have at least one credit
card with an interest rate over 11%.

We can offer you one at seven.

And, what are we doing like that?

And everybody else is I don't
even have a credit card.

And, yeah.

It's just, it's getting
that new thought in there.

Probably one of the things we should
discuss is the different channels of doing

this, and is there a way of doing it that
doesn't go under the board and say, Mark,

thank you for your 35 years of service.

Get outta here.

mark: Yeah.

So let's pivot to that.

What are the channels, you
mentioned advisory boards.

Do you suggest people have advisory
boards or advisory floaters that

learned the supervisory camp?

Absolutely.

What's the path?

What's the path to, to building a, one of

david: the things just a couple years ago.

And it, first of all, the path
is not the same for everybody.

And it's not necessarily,
about size and complexity.

It's about where you are from a
governance's perspective, where you

are from a community perspective.

But I obviously I'm a bylaws fan, right?

I'm a governance freak.

And I tell people the bylaws is that's
their number one roadmap for governance.

And I really liked the last.

A couple of changes from the NCUA.

I love the fact that they added additional
information about the advisory, and

I love how they added additional
information about Director Emeritus.

Just as a reminder the advisory
board member I, is they have to

pass all the background checks.

They have to be bondable, right?

Because they're gonna have personal,
private information presented to 'em.

But now it's basic.

It is, it's an internship program.

It's an unpaid internship for
mostly an unpaid position, but

now you can bring on these people
and they have a chance to learn.

Is this for me?

And again, I have a bias for supervisory
committee, but I will just say this.

If you look at the bucket of skills
for a supervisory committee it

is dramatically different from
the bucket of skills, right?

For the board.

And you could be the, the boy
talk about old time books.

It's the Peter principle, right?

In any given hierarchy, a person
tends to rise up to their level of,

shall we say, not producing well.

mark: Right.

david: But the more channels
that you have the better.

And then let's work in a few other things.

So I'm a big fan of that.

Provided they're onboarded.

mark: And I'm thinking of the
director of Meredith, so you, let's

say you got a board of five, right?

Each one's 20%.

And I'm gonna make a correlation to
N-C-A-N-C-A is losing 22% of their staff.

It's the 22% of their staff
that have 30 years, 35 years.

25 years, and are eligible to
either retire early under the,

that's a lot of knowledge, isn't it?

That's, it's a lot of knowledge, but
it, but if you have a board of five

and a guy's guy, or a lady who's been
on that board for 25 years, and you

just say, okay, we're gonna put you
out the pasture, that's 20% of your.

Corporate knowledge at least, because
they probably have more than 20% of

the years oh, that's exactly right.

Let's

david: just, let's just hit that one.

It's a great point.

So first of all, here's an easy one.

I'm all about low hanging fruit, right?

So how about we increase the board size?

Right.

And upsizing the board.

Now, obviously if you're a state chartered
credit union, you're gonna have different

interactions with your state regulator.

But for the most part I will say almost
universally which is like almost exactly.

So not all the time, but the vast
majority of times increasing your

board size is never gonna be a problem.

Now, once you start downsizing,
there could be some other issues.

So let's say you're at
five popping up to seven.

Don't have the drain, don't have
the brain drain immediately.

Put a few more people, put
a few more people on there.

And so that's another way to address it.

And we want to be respectful
of our volunteers.

We wanna honor them.

And I've heard people make the jokes,
oh we'll name our training room

after them, and that'll be that.

Now we can do director emeritus, because
let's go ahead and talk about some things.

Let's just, let's bring this out.

Okay.

You have a more mature board member.

Now, this is one of the now few
things that they're actively

involved in, and they're not only
actively, they're in charge, they're

at the top of that pyramid, right?

They are in charge of the one employee
who's running a, a federally chartered

or insured for the most part.

Not always, obviously credit union.

And they get travel from that.

They get camaraderie from that they
get a sense of purpose for that.

And that's tough.

So if you move them into a director
emeritus, then you can offer and I'll just

say maybe I go a little bit over, but I
typically offer them one term of travel.

Provided they, they come to
the meetings and participate.

I, I want to, and it's not, people
say, oh, you're paying them off.

No.

I want to keep them in the camp
because of what you mentioned, their

knowledge and their experience and
I think that's the way to do it.

Now let's go back to that
crossing of the hands.

If your nominations policy consists
of, we go to every incumbent.

If they want to run, we nominate 'em.

If that's your nominations policy, first
of all, you're absolutely wrong, right?

You need a job description.

It would be great if you had
an assessment and I'm a pretty,

again, I'm a pretty simple guy.

To be on the board, you need four things.

Here's the four things
you need to do, right?

So you may wanna put this on
the credit union examination

solutions pay site, right?

Yeah.

Just cut me in for 80% more.

Cool.

You

mark: got it.

You got it.

david: Here's all I need.

Ready?

Show up.

That's a big one.

That's a big one.

Be prepared.

Read that board package.

Ask questions as necessary.

And by the way, when you ask questions,
copy the whole rest of the board, right?

So that everybody sees that
communication channel show up.

Be prepared, participate.

We remember the old, the old
joke of, examiners would say

how active was the board?

Lemme tell you how active they are.

They're this active, right?

Show up, be prepared, participate.

And the final one, are you ready?

Play well with others.

mark: Right?

david: And that's it, and so
you need a succession plan.

That's going to hopefully
play well into that.

And like advisory committee members.

That's great.

So now you can see, are they
showing up, are they prepared?

Are they participating?

They can't vote, but
they could participate.

And the biggest thing, could
they play well with others?

Every board, any and I may even ask
people on my next session here at

this volunteer conference, but if I
were to look at a room of 200 people.

That's what it was this morning.

200 people.

If I were to ask how many of you have
been on other boards or other leadership

post in a volunteer, I'm gonna guesstimate
easily close to two thirds of the

people are gonna raise their hand.

Because that's just it.

It's the model that's like to help.

We like to be involved.

And eventually, if you're gonna be
involved, of course I want to be on the

board 'cause I want my voice to count.

And if you ask that same group
of people, how many of you

guys have either been driven.

To exit that opportunity or almost
driven to exit that opportunity

because there was somebody else
there that was just such a jerk.

And I'm gonna guesstimate, most
of those hands are gonna go up.

And I think there are ways that
we can design a process to help

with succession that will help do
that as long as they move, right?

As long as they go to step
one, they'll have a map.

They gotta have a map.

Because whenever the NCUA comes
around again, or their state

supervisory authorities come
around, they'll have that map.

The question is, are they gonna
take the first step on it?

mark: Great point.

You do well, play well with others.

I mo I moved once with NCUA
because I didn't, my boss

didn't play well for others.

With Oh.

Oh wow.

And, I went halfway across
the country for that reason.

So worked out.

But

david: yeah, everything
happens for a reason.

But it wasn't see what had happened, wasn.

mark: It was, no, it wasn't easy
when it happened and did a lot

of soul searching relative to it.

And I found a better boss on the West
coast and and then that, positioned me for

other situations and those board members
who left one board and they're now on this

board you learn, I learned from my good
bosses, and I learned from my bad bosses.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

david: Hey, as the Good book
says, the, the dude upstairs, he

can be helped with good things
that happen or bad things, right?

My wife has taught me a phrase and
we've only been together for 40

plus years, so I'm still trying to
learn it, but the phrase is this, I

used to always say it is what it is.

And I can still hear Diane's voice
actually from where I'm talking.

I can see Diane and she is lovely.

It is what it is, but it
becomes what we make of it.

Right,

mark: yep.

It's wonderful.

And so

david: there are ways that you can look
you wanna avoid the one hit wonder.

And this is the same way by, if you
were career pathing a teller to show

them how to become a teller supervisor.

Then an assistant branch manager,
and then a loan officer and a branch

manager to VP of lending, right?

You're gonna do some of these
same things, but you also have the

person that comes in that says,
oh, I've been a teller for a month.

I'm ready to be the CEO now.

So you gotta say whoa.

Here's the plan.

Here's what it looks like.

mark: The career, here's
the career ladder.

And you can have that career ladder
for the absolutely volunteers.

As well as the staff in the credit union.

I

david: seem to recall many
discussions in the NCUA, always

trying to make sure that was clear.

If you want to go here's
what you need to pack,

mark: right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

What are my opportunities?

How do I get there?

Et cetera, et cetera.

So what have we missed, David?

What when you're do you've got your,
you've got your syllabus for your.

Your your presentation what topics have
we not touched as it relates to session?

So I

david: guess let's talk about this.

So when I talk about that first
step, what is that first step?

Because we have to counter, Hey, we've
tried to get new volunteers before.

Remember that time we
got that one volunteer?

How long ago was that?

I don't know.

Let's face it, the older you get.

Everything is, you're thinking
it was three years and somebody

says no, that was 12 years ago.

So one of the, one of the things
is give them and I try to do this

if I work with an individual credit
union or even in, in my trainings.

And again, I just onboarded a new
credit union as a board council and

where they want me to talk about this.

But I'm like, all right, let's
just look at what you could do.

Where are the available volunteers?

Okay, doesn't that question,
isn't that question informed

by what are you looking for?

You don't want to just put on a
bunch of 23-year-old people, right?

So what you, so now you're gonna
have all that and you're gonna

help, that's gonna be in the plan.

So now how do we get to 'em?

And another risk is.

And we're not saying everything's
wrong about it, but you wanna

get 'em through multiple doors.

You wanna get 'em to the tap
on the shoulder from the board.

Maybe the CEO mentioned somebody maybe
another employee mentioned somebody.

Any number of things.

I'll tell this story.

One of my favorite stories on acquisition
of new identification and acquisition,

new volunteers was I was I was MCing.

The, a very large supervisory
committee, an internal audit

conference by America's credit units.

And somebody said I'll tell you how we get
new members of the supervisory committee.

I said, do tell.

Because this applies to them as well.

Absolutely.

And they said almost every year at the
annual meeting, somebody will get up and

say, all yeah, I was looking at page two.

Footnote three.

And here's what I wanna know.

What are these other losses
that you've considered and

what are you trying to hide?

And what we do is that, that
stick in the mud right there.

We say, Hey, you know what, we're
gonna get you that information

and why don't we do it over lunch?

'cause I wanna tell you
about opportunities on

the supervisory committee.

So that's one.

Let's start with some simple things,
we know that according to according

to everybody's bylaws, they have to
advertise for positions X number of

days prior to the annual meeting, right?

Let's call it 120 days.

And they have to get a
nominations committee.

They have to do this, they have to
have the slate in then they have to

give an opportunity for people to
petition if that's what they want to.

So all of that is there, right?

Most everybody, I dunno how many of
these, I prepared an Excel spreadsheet

that you just put the number in.

I don't know if you've
ever used Excel, mark.

It's a really good program.

You should you should look into that.

One of my,

mark: one of my favorites

david: and and pivot table.

And so beyond that, how
about we just, you know what?

Keep the ad out there.

Keep it out there.

12 months outta the year.

Whoa.

What's that gonna do?

What it's gonna do is
it's gonna open a door.

Maybe you get nobody,
maybe you get 10 people.

Maybe you put maybe you put
advertisements in the newsletters

of your big community organizations.

Maybe you ping people
you're already working with.

Maybe you have a great relationship
with the HR person of the employer

that used to be your primary sick.

All of these people you're gonna
identify and then you're gonna reach

out and what are you gonna give 'em?

You're gonna give 'em a job description.

This is what we're looking
for, and then ready.

You need to have a process to accept that.

So now you're gonna have, so let's say
you have just a quick application or

whatever, it's, somebody's gonna look
at that, you're gonna confirm receipt of

it and then interview where appropriate.

And let's face it, we've had
situations before where you have

had in, you've had seemingly very
qualified people that, that go very

public, that says, Hey, wait a second.

We, we, applied.

For volunteer position and
nobody even called us back.

mark: Right.

david: And then you go back and
look at they've been nominating

the same people that were up for
years and years, and maybe there's

a reason for that, they should have
at least, contacted those people.

Yeah.

So you're going to create that process.

You're gonna know what you want.

You're gonna put it out there.

Any number of places, put it in the
branch, for the people that come in

there, have it come up as a popup,
once somebody hits just pick weird

number 25 transactions in a month.

Boom, it pops up.

Have you considered this?

Hit this link.

Send out a text to people.

E-sign, e-sign is great.

And then we go back into the process.

Oh, we only have five seats.

All right, push it up to.

I don't push it up to 12, of course would
be 12, be 13 go to extra seats, create

the advisory committees, and with each one
of those, here's what we expect of you.

And that's and then you may be
able to bring on some people.

Oh, but a lot of those people
whoa, what was it Jefferson said?

How much time do we waste
reacting to affronts?

That are only in our mind

mark: Have never actually occurred.

Mark Twain I've had some horrific
experiences in my life, some

of which actually happened.

Right.

david: Oh, I love that.

I, oh my God.

Yeah.

Mark Twain.

Don't get me started.

So those are just some ideas.

Of how to do it.

And and I have mentioned some things that
probably, I have some very valent ideas.

I like some things I
don't like other things.

Yep.

And I don't mean to say that there's any
single wrong thing, but let's go back to

the CEO and helping to identify they're
active in the community, they're part

of other organizations that can help.

The issue is that if you have
the CEO naming everybody.

I've literally had people say,
oh yeah, I've met the super, I've

met the nominations committee.

It's the CEO, or the CEO EO
says I could do this, or it

says, I, says I can do that.

Or hey I've known, some supervisory
committees where there'll be maybe an

independent mind and a couple neighbors
of the CEO and that's just not how

sure the system was designed to work

mark: A and it, they could
be perfectly qualified.

They, it could be a situation
where they'll question the CEO,

but it gives the perception.

That you're not looking for a diverse
pool, that you're not looking for

maybe you're looking for this question.

Thought.

Yeah.

Looking, and that's a great point, right?

Where when do I vote Yes.

So I, yeah exactly right.

david: Could be very well qualified
people, but, hey, if they're, if they're

drinking, eggnog in the garage, they may
have a tendency to talk about things.

mark: Very good.

Yeah.

W if there's one other thing I should
have asked you that I didn't David,

what would that be on this topic?

Did we hit it all?

david: We certainly hit it, so
I would, so maybe this question.

So what's the biggest thing that a credit
unit needs to overcome to ensure success?

And I would go back to, i'm
not sure who the quotation is.

I'm sure you'll know.

We've met the enemy and they are us.

And the biggest thing I is that this
is always the way we've done it and to

take ownership of it, to recognize that
change may be a little bit painful, right?

I'm not a big change person.

I'm we recently moved the coffee
maker in our kitchen, and I'm

still a little emotionally.

Fragile from that decision.

But

That's part of the process of growing
that there are lots of options.

A and overcome yourself, map it out.

The succession plan, the requirement
January 20, 26, as you stated, gives

a great opportunity to focus on this.

So the question for them
is, what's that first step?

What happens next?

mark: And if someone wants to reach out
to you and is ready to take that first

step they've forgotten that this rule is
in place in January, or they just want

to talk to you about how they, we've
got our plan, we think we've got it.

They want to get in touch with you and
how they might be able to make it better.

What's the best way for them
to get in touch with you?

david: Email by far.

I look at that all the time.

Too much as as my wife would
say, it's david@reedandjolly.com,

and I think you'll give 'em
that in other formats as well.

But that, that, that's the best
way and I am happy to help.

In any way that I can, I've probably
made most mistakes possible in this area.

So I, I'm ready to have other
people avoid those landmines.

mark: There you go.

There you go.

That's the scar tissue that, that
went, that that doing things and making

decisions creates, that's fantastic.

Absolutely.

Thank you.

Thank you so much for your time.

As always.

Pleasure chatting with you.

Absolutely my friend.

Thank you so much, mark.

Take care.

And God bless you.

You got it.

God bless you.

And listeners, I want to
thank you for listening.

This is Mark Reel, signing
off with flying colors.