Credit Union Exam Solutions Presents With Flying Colors

Treichel: Hey everyone, this
is Mark Trekel with another

episode of With Flying Colors.

I'm excited to be here today
with the Chief Advocacy

Officer of DC uc, Jason Stirk.

Jason, how are you today?

Jason Stverak: I am doing wonderful.

How about yourself, mark?

Treichel: I can't complain.

Just got about a five mile walk in.

I got my, my my energy flow on this
morning, and it's been a few months a

few quarters since I chatted with you,
but, I spent a lot of time on LinkedIn

and I see a lot of what you're doing
for credit unions on LinkedIn and.

I know there was a recent article that
you sent out to Congress and maybe perhaps

others that maybe we should highlight.

If you kinda wanna walk through the
letters that, that you've been working

on sending or sent this week in
your role as Chief Advocacy Officer.

Jason Stverak: Yeah, obviously
I appreciate the opportunity.

We set up letters, particularly to the
house financial Services Committee and

Chairman Hill in relation to the next
piece of legislation they've, that

they've introduced to provide additional
reforms and support for community banks.

We're in favor of that.

We're, we've been in favor of
rolling back in a regulatory regime

that has been designed to stifle
the ability for community financial

institutions to serve their members
or their customers at, that has been

favoring large and regional banks.

But it seems like it, it's
continually been more one-sided.

We've had the make community
banking great legislation.

We've had this piece of legislation credit
unions are facing and have been facing

the same regulatory burden for lack of a
better term that everyone else has faced.

And we're, we've been pushing both
the House and the Senate to take

up that standard that as we are
moving legislation to roll back.

Regulatory burdens on banks
from the largest of the

large to the community sides.

Credit unions to be ta need to be part
of that journey every step of the way

because over 144 million Americans are
credit union members when over a third of

the country is being left behind because.

We can't get a good reason why, then
you know, we as a, a national credit

union traded association need to make
sure that we are raising concerns.

I'll put that in the nicest Midwestern
possible way that I can to ensure

that the needs of credit unions.

To be able to serve our members now and
well into the future is lifted, and as

a part of that, as they are looking at
regulations to overturn or repeal let's

take a look at in member business lending
particularly as it relates to veterans.

We understand that there may not
be the appetite among Congress of

Congress to repeal the entire cap, but.

I think we as a nation and elected
officials can agree that those that

have chosen to serve our country and
just importantly their families that

have chosen to serve their country along
with their spouse then we should defer.

To doing whatever we can to help them
either transition out, create small

businesses, help veterans grow small
businesses all across this country.

Because when you look at the studies,
veterans are less likely to get loans.

They're less likely to get support.

And you have credit unions that
are sitting on the sidelines with.

Billions of dollars that want to
invest in their members, yet when

they come in and say, we can't
help you because we're at our cap.

Go across the street to the bank
that you've never had any business

with yet we have your entire
family's financial portfolio with us.

That's unfair.

It's uncalled for and it needs to be
removed, and we're going to continually.

Push that as hard as we can in
both the House and the Senate.

Not only to attach to must pass
pieces of legislation, but standalone.

Because while we might not get this
fight done this year or next, but we are

gonna slowly chip away to make sure that
we get credit unions the changes they

need to be able to fully serve their
members, as, as digital is exploding.

We were, we have been leading
the fight to make sure that

credit unions were not just.

Knocking on the door when they're
discussing digital assets, we're in the

room and at the table so that members
that, that are part of credit unions

can have the access to the full, I'm
a larger American buffet a financial

services products that are out there and
don't have to go to a bank to be able

to access every tool that they can have
to have the most prosperous financial.

The American Dream.

Treichel: You talked about the.

Tweaks to the rule for
veteran member business loans.

Is that something similar?

Not having read the letter
or anything that's out there?

Yeah.

Is that something similar to carving
out the one to four family and

not counting it against the cap?

Is there, it's like building
it that if someone's a veteran,

it excluded from the cap?

Is that the concept?

It's straight.

Jason Stverak: If you're a veteran.

That's how the loan is classified.

It's when you apply for veteran
benefits, you click the box.

It would be the same
thing on the form here.

Then it doesn't count
against the 12, the 12.5%

count.

I love it.

I love it.

That's, it's that simple.

So

Treichel: it's elegant,
it's elegantly simple.

It, Confucius said, it's a simple
task to be complex and it's

a complex task to be simple.

And I love the beauty of that.

It's, the, these people fought
for our country or are fighting

for our country and were.

We're potentially excluding them
from some opportunities at, as

you said at the institution that
they've always been part of.

And it, it just doesn't make sense.

Jason Stverak: And I'll
give you an example.

Where I come from North, North Dakota,
you had, and you still have, with the

continued expansion of the oil and gas,
exploration and production in the state.

We all know banks are really
not interested in giving the

loans for businesses less than
a hundred thousand dollars.

And credit unions, we're not interested
in giving the, two or $300 billion

loans, to explore, for massive projects.

But.

Who is uniquely situated out
there for someone retiring

from Minot Air Force Base.

His mechanics got the skills.

Just needs a new truck to be able to
go from oil patch to oil patch, when

they're running 80, 90, a hundred thousand
dollars for a good new pickup truck.

Yet.

Credit unions are ideal to make those
loans and banks, if you try to apply

online at Chase or something like that,
they're like, eh, it's not even worth

the paperwork problems that we have
that, that we would have to deal with.

So just let us serve our members.

And, that, that's what I think is lost,
is that, from when they were 17 or 18

or 19 years old and they joined
or graduated from one academies.

Went through ROTC.

We've had their family's financial
future and portfolio with us.

We've been trusted.

They've stayed with us.

They're there for 20, 30 years.

First home loan, college funds,
savings accounts, car loans, et cetera.

Yet we're kicking them across
the street to a bank because.

Because of some arbitrary
cap passed by Congress.

It's time to take the handcuffs
off credit unions and allow us to

serve our members to the fullest
extent possible because they, these

members wanna do business with us.

They wanna deal with someone
that they have an existing

business relationship with.

And yet we're saying, no,
you've gotta go somewhere else.

Sure.

Sure.

Treichel: And one other thing I picked
up on you saying is whether it's

part of this bill, whether it's a
standalone bill, you gotta be ready.

That's one thing I learned, working at
NCUA, there might've been some things

that I wanted to do as executive director,
but I had to wait for the timing when the

board was positioned to wanna take action.

So there were things that my deputy
executive director and I, John Kuchi.

Had ready to plug and play without
going into specifics of what those

might have been, it was, if a
board's got an appetite, we're ready.

So you don't have to go to them
and say, Hey, I'd like to do this.

Where's the paperwork?

And you don't have it done.

So you guys, no.

You guys take that approach.

Jason Stverak: No, we do.

And I, I come from Capitol Hill and,
it's always, good luck is when hard hard

work meets a opportunity and preparation.

Exactly.

We wanna make sure that we don't have to
educate the members, that we can come to

them and say, Hey, that's a great idea.

I've been supportive of it.

Let's move with it here.

And that's, that's our mentality.

And to an extent we're blessed.

A lot of our defense credit unions,
they have boards of directors that

are former military, a lot of them,
or come from the military community.

And if you don't have a plan,
you're planning to fail.

So we we try to have those plans
and when you have generals and

admirals and colonels and staff
sergeants asking questions, you

darn well better have an answer.

And you be, and you
need to be ready to go.

And that's what we try to do is not only
to equip our credit unions to be able to,

to be help us and move into that, move
into the breach when it's possible, but

us as a national Trade association to
be able to handle those needs as well.

Treichel: No.

And on the National Trade Association
front, we're into the merger of

Nfcu into cuna, the new A CU.

And it's just great standing on the
sidelines and seeing all the hard work

that you're doing in DCUC is doing.

It's good to have voices, right?

Wisdom of the crowd.

One of the concerns with that
merger that I'd heard was that's

one less letter that's going in
support of credit unions, right?

But it, it seems to me that you guys.

Have seized that opportunity to
make sure that you're on a full

court press on all sorts of topics.

Jason Stverak: No, absolutely.

And we try to be as nimble and as
quick we call it Green Beret advocacy.

In terms of in, we took that from a,
I stole that, I'll be honest about it,

from a board director at Space Coast
federal Credit Union down in Florida,

who's a Green Beret, where, you don't
have to have a 50 person advocacy team.

And a lot of e associations
are talking about this idea.

We just need to have a core group that
is able to go out and professionally

train or work with our members.

'cause they are the true secret sauce,
secret weapon, whatever you wanna call it.

Members of Congress, as influential and
as eloquent as we can be as lobbyists

and association professionals, they much.

Easily respond to people who
vote for them in the district.

Sure.

That, that sponsor the local
sports teams, et cetera.

We've we've adapted and adopt, excuse
me, adopted a mentality of a, a Green

Beret mentality where we will have
a professional group of individuals

who will work with our members to
achieve our shared advocacy goals.

And so that money is returned back
to the institution so that they can

make the best choices local too.

Keep the doors open, provide,
do whatever they need to do.

It shouldn't be, direct
always supporting us, so

Treichel: Makes sense.

Makes sense.

We went through the taxation fight.

It seems like it's it's
kinda winning the Super Bowl.

And then you get a week off and then
you gotta start planning for the next

season and defending the taxation.

Any thoughts on.

On the journey of the, of getting
to today where things played

outright or but don't go to sleep.

'Cause we still have to keep watching.

Jason Stverak: Yeah.

No, that, that's the mentality.

I think that it was impressive
by the way, how, whenever.

An association and or credit union kind
of got involved in the fight, whether

it was at the beginning or at the end.

It was impressive to see the industry
coming together and singing from the same

hymn book in terms of protecting credit
union tax status, and it was great.

We ha we shelved off that fight.

I am still greatly concerned that we were
even part of that discussion for that.

And the fact that when you're part
of the 55 page document of pay force

on how to fund the first Big B, big
beautiful bill or the BBB yeah, it's

we won the Super Bowl, that's done.

But that was yesterday.

Today we're we gotta moving forward,
we've heard the speaker the speaker

of the house, we've heard the Senate
Finance Chairman Mike Repo or is, like

month and a half ago, say, we're gonna do
another reconciliation package this year.

So that means that as they're
looking to fund things, the

amount of, the buckets to pay for.

Differences in funding or stuff
like that, or where they may need

to get revenue is less and less.

And you know that three to $4 billion
a year or as they do it, the budget

reconciliation, package, and they,
they do it on a 10 year cycle.

So the 40, 50 billion that they that
they budget for, that starts to look

appealing at three in the morning.

When they need to pay for something.

It's great.

We've congratulated ourselves and, it's
not breathless hyperbole for us to say

the next fight is already on us, because
when they're, once they're done with the

CR or the funding or whatever, that's
take, that's taking up most of the

oxygen or Washington, we're gonna see.

There will be a move towards
another reconciliation package.

There's gonna be an additional
one or two next year.

We've been told by leadership
staff that was the first quarter.

We're gonna start going to the
second quarter, then we're gonna

go the third and the fourth.

And heck, you never know.

They can try to change the rules or
interpret 'em in such a way that they

might do, if they could even do more.

It's it's gonna be a continuum of fight
where every conversation we are having,

we're always including the value.

For the value of credit unions
is justifying our tax status.

Not only telling the stories from
back home, having our members

tell those stories not only of
what they do because of our unique

structure and giving us those tax,
you know that, that tax benefit.

But what will happen to the communities
they represent if that is taken away?

No.

Treichel: Said.

And ba bank purchases.

I saw something recently.

Some chatter on Yep.

Concept of bank purchases and general
thoughts on that whole state of

affairs where DC see's position
where you see the playing field.

We

Jason Stverak: are going to
aggressively and violently defend.

Credit union the ability for
banks to sell to credit unions.

It seems kinda strange that we are
defending their ability to get the highest

price available in the communities.

I come from rural America, you
had a bank and a credit union

most likely in your communities.

And if the bank, for whatever reason, is
choosing to go outta business, I'd rather.

Have them make the choice to sell to a
local community based institution rather

than a large regional bank or gsip,
because they're not gonna care what

happens in a town of two or 300 people.

But the people who live there, the
people who sponsor the local sports team,

you know the shop at the same grocery
store, that's incredibly important.

And it just continually
needs to be pointed out that.

When a bank sells to a credit
union, the community benefits.

They benefit by people staying
employed by tax dollars, staying

local in terms of salary and benefits.

Many times, they like to, banks like
to say, this is, a tax repurchase.

That's not true.

The credit union pays the taxes on the
assets they pay In many, some states

banks that haven't sold the credit union
has had to pay up to a 10% surcharge,

to be able to, to get those assets.

So I think that it's a red herring that
will continually see from the community

banks and the banks, to renew their
membership drives, to try to scare people.

It's you also have to lay in
the fact that many, smaller and

community banks using sub-chapter
s don't, aren't in the position

not to pay taxes at all right now.

So the tax avoidance argument is false.

In terms of how banks play that and at
the end of the day they're fighting to

save members so that those members can
pay dues to their national associations.

And it should always be about what is
best for the community, what is best

for the people, not what is best for
the upper East side of wa of Manhattan.

Treichel: Said.

I know that was it
maybe two years ago now.

Possibly Now the expansion of people of
who can join DCCU or maybe highlighting

who can join DCUC can you, someone might
be listening to this going, Hey, I'm.

A SEG employee.

I serve a, b, c company.

But, but I, I'm interested and I
like what I'm hearing and seeing

that DCUC is doing, how does
someone join DCUC and participate?

Jason Stverak: Honestly, just, any credit
union can join, because every credit.

Union has a veteran, and the issues
we fight for on behalf of our, quote

unquote defense credit unions, that
are specifically on base, et cetera.

These are the same issues that
impact every credit union.

Whether it's a tax fight,
whether it is banks selling to

credit unions, whether it's a
interchange tho those are universal.

They don't just impact tea, teacher
credit unions or common bond or it's.

Everyone can join our association and
we will aggressively support and work

with you like we do with someone who's
been us for the 63 years that we've

been in, in place as an organization.

If anyone they just reach out to me, I,
or go to our website, go to dc uc.org.

Collect info, more
information, on our info site.

And we're happy to reach out
and talk to you because, we

have a unique due structure.

The most you can pay as an institution,
and this would be like PenFed size if

you're tens upon tens of billions of
dollars, is just a little over 20,000.

Wow.

Most of you are.

3000 or less.

And you and we like to, we live by motto,
you can pay for more, but you're not

gonna get better in terms of us fighting
for credit unions and helping work for

a better credit union future for every
credit union, whether their school's

choice, which just joined unit us, or.

My hometown of Rapid City, South
Dakota, black Hills Federal Credit

Union near the Air Force base and,
on-Base Sentinel Federal Credit Union.

So

Treichel: Fantastic.

That's glad, I'm glad to hear
the growth is continuing.

Yes.

You guys are doing, yeah.

Jason Stverak: Yeah.

We've had about, I think since March.

30 to 35 that have joined.

We're still, there's more there.

I think we're gonna be announcing three
or four more in the next two weeks.

Just fantastic.

Sign the documents, go through the, the
webinars and all that type of stuff.

And it's good to go.

Treichel: Love it.

Glad to hear that.

Glad to hear that.

From the NCA perspective anything
on the horizon there that you can

think of that that you're watching?

Jason Stverak: Obviously, we're gonna
be, we're coming into budget cycle time.

Yep.

So we, we'll, or anticipating
what the staff's budget will be,

and then be able to once again,
testify in front of the board.

Like everybody else in the credit
union system or industry or movement,

we're obviously waiting to see what
plays out with the board members

of the Supreme Court decision.

We have always been steadfast in our
support for a strong, independent.

NCUA board we want nothing that
could give any inclination or wink,

wink nod that, hey, we should just
roll everybody under one regulator.

And then, we're in the basement
of the treasury building.

In 10 or 15 years, we're gone, as
institutions and we're gonna do

whatever we can to support that.

And obviously we've been
commenting on the, the agency

reviews and the rules reviews.

We are very thankful for the agency's
hard work that we've been work up

on the CLF issues, specifically in
the Senate, working with Senator

Badilla and Senator Kramer on that.

The team over at the NCUA and
Chairman Halman has done yeoman's

work to help move that issue along.

I think we're farther
along than we've ever been.

Wow.

We have a ways to go, but I, I'm glad
we're I think we're playing on the

other side of the field right now.

But and that's testament to the great
working team over at the NCAI know

there is concern as the agency has.

Shed employees, whether it's through Doge,
whether it's through retirement, whether

it's through not filling obviously, we
wanna make sure that the agency has the

resources it needs to provide, safety
and soundness throughout the system.

But also knowing and understanding that
credit unions pay for, for the group

and for the, that we're doing we're.

Wisely using the resources out there.

Said.

And I don't think anyone thinks working
at the NCA you're sitting with your

feet up and you're you're not working
hard because I've seen those people

work incredibly hard and diligent
both up on Capitol Hill and also

either at Q Note or here at, dCUC.

Hats off to them for continually
doing that incredible hard work.

And I think we continually see that when
our nation goes through a bank run or

a financial crisis, haven't seen one
track back to credit union in that.

Treichel: That's right.

That's right.

And des, despite all the retirements
and the Doge impact people there,

there's talent there at every level.

This will create some opportunity Yeah.

For some new people to
rise into leadership.

And there'll be some bumps
around, along, along the road just

'cause they're, they're losing.

You pick a number, 20, 22% of the staff
depending on whose numbers you look at.

But a lot of great people there.

I'm looking forward to seeing
what happens with the budget.

What, what, when you testify
before the board, who will it be?

And the

Jason Stverak: And you also gotta
expect, I mean from, they've had

roughly the same amount of employees
for when we had 10,000 credit unions.

Right now we're down under 4,500,
the agency has to flex and expand

and contract, with the industry
to be able to meet its needs.

So we're gonna have fewer smallers
because of mergers and some of

the regulatory difficulties.

We talked earlier about, creating
new credit unions or de no.

Credit unions and as other credit
unions are getting larger, we're

gonna have to have different types
of evaluations and exams, et cetera.

But what I'm fully confident of is that
5, 10, 15, 20 years down the road that

the credit union movement industry.

Is gonna be stronger than it is
today because of the people in the

movement and why they choose to be
a credit union member rather than

a customer over at Bank of America.

Treichel: Extremely well.

Said there almost good for a wrap.

But I wanna ask you, is there
any other questions or any other

things that you'd like to chat
with here today before we wrap up?

Jason?

Jason Stverak: No I, honestly, just
to say thank you, I think a lot of our

members and, other credit union leaders,
follow you breathlessly, on social media

and through the podcast, stay abreast
of the issues you impacting them.

Just to say thank you, whether it's from.

The tax fight or the issue
we've been having with Marshall

and Durban and interchange and
possible amendments onto the NBAA.

Whenever DCUC or any other organization
or group has made a effort or made a

call for help, member credit unions has
always been there, and that, that type

of collaborative, cooperative spirit is
why we will continue to win most of the.

Advocacy fights on, up on Capitol Hill
because we're not a nameless, faceless

organization based upon, getting whatever
our quarterly profits are for returns.

We measure our success by the
amount of people that we help, and

the home, the mortgages that we
provide or the, the, the new, the.

The low income communities
that we go into that have been

abandoned by by the banking system.

So I just to say thank you to everybody,
the entire credit union industry I

know sometimes it feels thankless
to be a credit union leader 'cause

you're always being asked to do more.

But we see it at DCUC and we love being
the partner for, hundreds upon hundreds

of credit unions across this country.

To ensure that they have every
tool that they need to serve

their members to the best ability.

Treichel: Said again.

And Jason, I wanna thank
you for your time today.

Thank you for being on the show.

We'll get you on later in
the year if something pops.

And we'll get you on even post budget
just to walk through what happens there.

But again, thank you so much
for your time today, Jason.

Jason Stverak: No, absolutely.

And you need to knock on wood or throw
some salt over your shoulder because

I don't want you to have chins us and
said this something bad's gonna happen.

Treichel: Knock on wood.

I'll do it all.

There you go.

All right, I'll do it all.

All right.

And listeners, yeah I wanna
thank you for listening.

As always, this is Mark reel,
signing off with flying colors.