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Treichel: Hey, everyone.

This is Mark Treichel with another
episode of With Flying Colors.

I'm excited today because I
have a friend and colleague that

I met in the coaching world.

Today, we have the pleasure
of speaking with Joe Jacoby.

Joe mastered the art of navigating both
turbulent waters and life's challenges.

Joe is an Olympic gold medalist,
having clinched America's first

ever gold in whitewater canoe
slalom at the 1992 Olympics.

But his journey didn't end at the podium.

Today is a well known performance
coach, transition expert, and author,

helping high performance leaders
unlock their potential and achieve

what he calls midlife peak performance.

From his home in the Pyrenees
mountains of Catalonia, Spain,

which is fittingly located beside
the very canoeing venue where he

won his Olympic gold, Joe continues
to refine and share his insights.

In 2022, he published slalom love
the name of that book, a book that

translates his four decades of
river experience into strategies

for confronting life's obstacles.

Joe's latest project, a weekly publication
called thinking and waves draws parallels

between surfing offshore ocean waves
and making clear value aligned choices.

Join us as we dive into Joe's
journey from Olympic athlete to

life strategist and explore how his
unique perspective can help us all

navigate the rapids of our own lives.

Joe, welcome to the show.

Joe Jacobi: Mark.

It's so great to be here
talking to you, my friend.

Treichel: Yes.

And it's funny.

I, we, in our pre chat,
I met you with Rochelle.

We were both on Rochelle's
podcast recently Rochelle to you

and I is Madonna or Cher, right?

It's just one word.

She's a, she, with one name, you
don't need her last name, but Rochelle

Moulton, who has a podcast and.

And I just remember back then when I
first met you in a zoom call like this,

there were, we're five or six of us and
you were just so positive every, you have

this glass half full and I don't know if
that glass came from the rapids of the

Olympics right outside there, but you're
just, your energy and your positivity.

I enjoyed it then.

And we've connected on LinkedIn and I'm
really excited to chat with you today.

Joe Jacobi: Thank you, Mark.

I and I say this I and I really
mean this, I think that joy and that

excitement that passion for learning
and living that I have it feeds off of

people like you and it's I'm so curious.

I grew up in the Washington D.

C.

area.

I grew up.

With a lot of people that were
in that government line of work.

My, my father was a, he was a private
practice attorney, but he was working

with federal communications commissions.

But that mindset of people that
are retiring from federal agencies

and things like that, I think it's
hard to spring forward and say, I

want to do something really cool.

I want to push myself.

I want to.

Move myself in new directions
and new boundaries.

I, you have a great story.

Like you've done something
very extraordinary.

And to me, it's not just what you've done,
but it's knowing a little bit about where

you've come from and how you're doing it.

And I, it's so clear to all of us
that know you that follow you and

you have such a great sense of
humor behind what you do as well.

It's in a lot of people coming out
of that line of work and out of that

system will often sit on their hands.

They're really not sure what
to do next, but that's not you.

That's not your story.

Like you figured out how to do something
meaningful, substantial and really

do good for the people around you.

Treichel: That's very kind of you.

And I'll tell you my when I have chats
with new clients or clients that I

bring on, That transition, I think
back to the last couple of years when I

was at NCA and working for the federal
government and it was like, can I

do this, should I do this, will it.

Will I succeed?

Should I just ride off into the sunset?

Cause I'm, burned out
and it's, I'm eligible.

I've got a pension and all those things.

And you have the self doubt.

I had a, I had a coworker who knew a
lot of people who did do the transition.

And so just a few conversations with him.

Coupled with when my dad retired,
him telling me that he had

people calling him for two years,
and he said the call stopped.

So if you're going to do it, you got to
do it quick, which kind of conflicts with

the concept of people saying, when you
leave and retire, you need to take the

time off to figure out what you really.

It was this coworker, my dad, and
then you weave in the pandemic, that

you couldn't really go anywhere.

I was doing yard work and I started
listening to podcasts more than I

ever had stumbled across Rochelle and
Jonathan's podcasts and consulting

success with Michael's a Persky.

And it was like, you know what?

I got a lot of time on my hands
now, and let's see what we can do.

And so I Success is a little bit of
opportunity and luck and having the

energy to do it and all that, but yeah
it's I would not have envisioned this,

but I'm really having a blast helping
people from this side of the fence.

So let's look at, where your journey.

I know it all, it's easy to start and say,
okay so my first question is going to be.

As it relates to that moment,
you won the Olympics, right?

Okay.

So you just, you and Scott, your partner,

Joe Jacobi: yes,

Treichel: cross the finish line.

You win the gold.

What's in your head at that moment,
you've had this long journey up to

that point in time, but take me back
to that day and what you were thinking

as you cross that finish line in first

Joe Jacobi: I'll tell you a
couple of things about the day.

It was August 2nd, 1992.

So it was 32 years ago.

And what the 1st thing I can tell you
about the day, I can tell you everything

that we were doing any minute of the day
between 445 in the morning when we woke

up that day until 1017 in the morning
when we made our 1st run down the course.

Thanks.

And what happened in between the
two runs and then I remember the

second of our two runs as well.

But that was all over at we crossed
the finish line at the Olympics, and

we actually were not Olympic champions.

At the moment we cross the finish
line because in our sport, it's just

one boat down the course and there
were still 10 more boats to come.

Any of them could have unseated us
but the reason I mentioned all this.

We didn't go to the Olympic Park that
day with the goal to win the Olympics.

We went there to do the best
we could and execute the plan

that we had set for ourselves.

So I can still remember everything
before winning the Olympics.

Life's crystal clear.

What happened afterwards, how I felt, all
those things, that's a lot more fuzzy.

And it wasn't because I
drank a lot of things.

It wasn't that at all.

It's just that you put so much
into preparing to do the work, not

preparing to celebrate after the work.

And it's interesting.

But what I would tell you that happened
later that day it felt a little bit like.

Someone put a crown on your head, maybe
a nice cape and said you're a king now.

And you weren't expecting that.

Like you had no idea that you were going
to be a king at the end of the day.

All you wanted to do was go and canoe
the river to the best of your ability.

And we did that.

And I think relative to, I think part of
the conversation that we're going to have

today is that for better or for worse, you
realize that something big just happened.

You have no idea what it means.

You have no perspective or
context of what being Olympic

champion means at this moment.

You start to make some choices about who
you think you need to be, how you think

you need to show up in the situation.

What you need to be right about, and
like I can, that is part of these midlife

transitions that I can look back on that.

I probably started to really hold on
to pretty tightly back on August 2nd,

1992, not all of which were healthy,
but you don't know that at the time.

And then, it starts to catch up with you
later in your life, but I mean, it was

obviously a great feeling to stand on the
Olympic podium to, to have the race, the

competition that you hoped you would have.

And and I also would last thing I'll
tell you is that, my mom and dad.

Who were both born and
raised in the Washington, D.

C.

Area.

Both have passed on.

Of course, I remember how happy they were,
how much they enjoyed the experience.

That's one of the things I
remember so well on the day

of the Olympics was last sale.

There's a the small town that I live in
two and a half hours north of Barcelona

where the Olympics were being held.

The whitewater course was in this
small town of 12, 000 people.

And I remember walking into the little
wooded tree square in the middle of the

town and my mom and dad were, at this
long table with friends with sangria

glasses all around and how happy they were
like, I certainly remember that as well.

So those are some of my, my,
my feelings about that moment.

But it is interesting.

I really started to hold on to
some ideas that really stuck

with me for about 30 years more.

Treichel: It's interesting too, as
you're thinking, as you're, as you

summarize that, the word that pops
into my head is journey, right?

It's about the journey.

And you said, 445 AM to 1017, you
remember every step of that journey

which is one of life's lesson, right?

It's not that you want to get to
that, win that Superbowl, win that

Olympic gold, finding pleasure in the
routines that you create that allow

you to achieve that It is something
that hit me as you were describing

that now, thinking about you, you
talked about you're from Washington, D.

C.

Area.

I know that you got your start young and
you had some opportunities where people

took you under your under their wings
as part of the elite group of kayakers.

Talk a little bit about maybe
mentorships that led you to that moment.

And then a little bit about The teamwork
is, my kids ran in, in cross country

and track and field and they learned
so much from sports, but that teamwork

side of things that you pick up talk a
little bit about the partner you had in

the race and how you work together to
achieve your goals, the Olympic goals.

Joe Jacobi: Yeah, so there I can
really link a couple of these

ideas together in your question.

So I want to start with growing up
in the Potomac River and that level

of mentorship that you asked about.

I know a lot of people in the
United States would not look

at Washington DC is like this.

Positive high performance
place, especially right now.

But, it's this very unique big city and
that there's an amazing Whitewater River

that flows through the middle of the city,
the Potomac River with these great Rapids.

And if you think about Whitewater
River Rapids in the United States,

most are located in very rural
mountainous areas of far from good

jobs far from good universities.

So because you had
Whitewater in a big city.

It was the place where all the U.

S.

athletes wanted to be.

They needed place to have jobs.

They need a place to go to school.

And so it turned out that the athletes
on the Potomac River when I was 10,

years old in the early 1980s The athletes
in the United States, they were the

highest performing athletes in the sport.

When I went to my first workout
with the US team, when I was 12

years old everyone there was a world
champion or a world medalist or

the legendary coach of the sport.

And there was an amazing level
of mentorship, but canoeing is

individual sport in that it's
like a relationship with you and

the water and you with yourself.

And there's not like a
football coach, saying Mark.

Get your butt to practice.

Where were you yesterday?

You got to run 10 laps.

No one cares.

You show up because you
want to show up, Mark.

You come there because
you want to be there.

But if you want to be there,
this group was incredible.

Like they totally had your back.

They really helped you.

They wanted people that really fit
into the culture and the community.

But the second part you mentioned
having a doubles canoe partner.

So the United States was
especially good in the men's.

single canoe, which is the sport I
wanted, the discipline I wanted to do.

But the coach pulled me aside when
I was 17 years old and he's, and

he said, Joe, he goes, you're good.

But he goes, you might come in
eighth or ninth place at the U

S team trials and only four get
to represent the United States.

And any of our four athletes could
make not only could they make any

other team in the world, all four of
them are capable of winning a medal.

In fact, at my first world
championships, the U.

S.

went 1st, 2nd, 3rd and
6th in that category.

And so he said, but look,
if you go, if you and Scott.

And the person in the same position
as me, if you were to paddle the

doubles canoe, you'll make the US team.

You'll get the experience
of the world championships.

You'll be there.

You'll just you'll have an
opportunity to start the world

championships at 17 years old.

So I literally went from my high school
graduation to a small village in France

to compete in the world championships.

And it was like life changing experience.

And doing this in a doubles canoe
with Scott, I think one of the

things, we came from this amazing
canoeing culture in the Washington, D.

C.

area, which we stuck with for the next
3 years, but it also told us that it

was a hard and very grinding culture.

And it became very apparent that
we had to find our own way forward

that maybe the way of these world
champions was not the way for us.

They gave us a lot of good
fundamentals, but the biggest, most

important choice that Scott and I
made was 3 years into our career.

We left the Washington D.

C.

area and we went down to the.

The quiet solitude of the Nantahala River
in Western North Carolina in Appalachia,

which seemed like a crazy move.

Like, why would you leave?

It's like being on the Chicago Bulls
in the 1990s and leaving to go like

start an expansion startup team.

But it was the most important and
best decision that we ever made.

And I think where this relates Even
to the people that are listening right

now, it's really nice to look at the
best leaders, the best, people running

banks or the best sports athletes
and saying I want to be like them.

I want to put their system into place.

I, whatever's working at Salesforce.

I want to try it at our company as well.

It's like the worst idea ever.

There are things you can learn from
everyone, but the hardest thing to do

in leadership whether, you're running
a big company or you're running a

credit union is to find your own way
of performing and everyone can do it,

but it's hard work to do and it takes
time and it takes patience and you

gotta be willing to make some mistakes.

But anything short of that.

You'll you will struggle with
results or you will not be operating

really at your peak ability.

If you're trying to run someone else's
system, that's really not uniquely your

own and suited not only to your team,
but to the conditions of around you

and the conditions of your community.

Treichel: That's fascinating.

So thinking about the conditions
around you, I'm thinking

about conditions as you're.

As you're on the river.

And I know that you have a lot of ways
of relating the river to real life.

But in business and in whether
I'm talking, whether I'm having a

relationship with my kids, my wife,
a client or picking up the phone,

cock talking to customer service at
the cable company communications is.

Is paramount.

And, I saw Sully Sullivan, who
landed a plane on the Hudson river.

I saw him speak one time and he talked
about training and the importance of.

He had never met his co pilot,
and they got in their plane,

the co pilot was trained.

He was trained the birds hit their
engines and they started communicating

in very short statements to each
other because they knew the book.

They'd lived that book of that
training and they landed it and

saved all these people's lives.

Now here, you have a partner
that you're training with.

monthly for years.

But communication.

So you do know the person what to speak
to me about the communications as part of

a team kayak and how that might, how that
relates to success outside of kayaking.

Joe Jacobi: Yeah.

So a couple of things, one of first
thing I'll say about paddling the

devil's canoe in Whitewater River in
this very uncertain, changing conditions,

before you strap yourself into a
canoe and you literally strap yourself

into the racing canoes that we're in,
you want to know something about the

other person that you're going to go
through this experience with, right?

You want to.

Have a sense of how they're going to
show up, not when things are going well,

but when things are not going well, and
I think that really relates well to the

Sully story that you are, talking about.

Secondly, in canoeing.

We don't in fact, if I would always
tell people, if you saw Scott and

me talking on the river, it meant
that we were making mistakes.

Really?

Our communication was based
on unspoken communication.

It was really reading.

Body movements for me in the back of the
canoe reading Scott's body movements.

He was communicating to me what he
was trying to do with the canoe by

the little strokes that he was doing.

And I would look at those strokes and
then I'd be like, oh, he's trying to

do a draw stroke, which is designed
to pull the boat to the right side.

Oh I can compliment that
with a sweep stroke.

He doesn't have to say anything.

I can just tell the stroke he's doing.

If Scott is going into a sweep
stroke, that means he wants

to push the boat to the left.

Great.

I can do like a draw stroke and
it's like it's all unspoken, right?

And which is pretty cool.

What's more interesting about the
relationship with Scott, and I

think is really interesting for the
audience that we're talking to today.

I don't think Scott and I were 180 degrees
different, but we're about 179 and I

like to say that if we were 175 I don't
think we would have won the Olympics.

I think it was our diversity, our
differences that made us great.

And I know that diversity.

In the late 1980s probably means
something different than it does in

2024, but I think the idea of it is
not that different that there are

ways to read into people's differences
and, the way they evaluate success.

risk, focus, a goal, rest,
recovery, things like that.

And the neat thing about having
a diverse team or people who see

things differently, it brings more
perspective to the situation, but

it all comes down to how you process
that and how you work with that.

Like initially, especially as the pressure
went up on Scott and me and we, We went

from, Hey, this will be a fun thing to do.

We can make the U S team in a
devil's canoe to being like,

Oh, you're winning medals.

You have a chance to win the Olympic
games or a medal in the Olympic games.

That's when we started, like I started to
self destruct the team because I didn't

have these tools of how to work with
a partner under stress, under duress,

with a lot of just tension on the line.

But we had a sports psychologist that
came in and help us do that, Mark.

And that was huge.

And then that gave us like a lot of ways
of how to work with people and appreciate

the things that make them difference.

And it was the best thing that I'll
tell you about the sports psychologist.

He didn't come in and say,
Oh, Scott, you're an introvert

and Joe, you're an extrovert.

And therefore you got to do this and this.

What he did was instead of
doing that, he just look for.

What are the conditions look like
for putting, for choices being

made under better circumstances?

And how do you create rules of engagement
for having better conversations of trust?

That's it.

We didn't have to wear these labels
on us that said, you're an introvert,

or, there's all these tests that tell
you what kind of identity you are.

Instead, I think what we can be more
consistent about though, those are fine.

Those are interesting, but I think
what's more important is like.

Being smart about having, setting
the conditions about when we can

have trusting, engaging conversations
and when we can't and not, and

really doing them with intention
and purpose and preparation.

And if you do those things, You will
have much better meetings, especially

with leaders who are different than you,
maybe operate, and do different things.

And that's how the diversity of
people and leaders really ultimately

lead to great performances by teams.

Treichel: That's fascinating.

So as I'm listening to you talk about
this in your relationship with your

teammate, two books popped into my
head, Blink, which is that, your brain's

a computer that it's the journey you
got to today that allows you to make

a decision in a blink of the eye.

So you're in the back of that kayak.

Because you went down so many
rivers with your teammate.

And when you see him lean one way,
you don't even think about it.

You just do it because of
that, that rote memory.

And then on the diversity side of it
the diversity, when I think diversity,

I think of diversity of thought, and
I think of a book called the wisdom of

crowds and that when you surround yourself
with different people whether it's race.

Sex or just someone who comes from
a different part of the country

or from a different country.

Joe Jacobi: Yeah.

Treichel: You have that dialogue.

You have a better, it
leads to less blind spots.

And because those blind spots are gone,
you're going to maximize your decision.

Any thoughts about,
about those connections?

Joe Jacobi: Listen, I would actually,
I believe in general that, especially

for younger people listening to
this podcast, I have a 23 year old

daughter that just graduated from
business school in Geneva last week.

I think for so many of these young
people, their work is going to be

defined by their ability to quickly
adapt, People from different parts of

the world and not working together for
long periods of time, but on a project.

So you can't, you got to have a
goal, you want to have a common

goal with that, but you're going to
need to do some work within that to.

Understand again, what your, your project
coworkers, how they experience, what

does it mean to feel belonging and what
does it mean to take risk and what does

it mean to connect or to really take,
more, just more risk in the situation.

And that I know that for me, I mentioned
I've been living in another country.

I haven't been to the United
States in more than five years now.

I am.

I love where I'm living, but part
of what I love about being here in

addition to the spirit of the Catalan
people and the surroundings of the

Catalan landscape and the environment,
just that it's so wonderful.

But I wake up every day to do the basics
like, schedule a dentist appointment,

haircut, buy vegetables from the
supermarket, get my car inspected,

pass a driving test, whatever it is.

I do all of this in a different language.

I do all of this in Catalan.

It means like I have a few seconds
when I wake up where I might

have, it's like a little foggy.

Where am I?

What's going on?

What's that language being
spoken outside the window?

Oh yeah.

I remember what I've signed up for.

I've signed up to learn.

Like my brain is on learning mode from
the moment and that's how I survive.

That's how I get by.

And I love it.

I'm.

Living in a, in the summer in
Catalonia, I live at the coast

instead of the mountains and the town
and the conditions are different.

But yeah, I've learned like
3 or 4 new words this week.

And I've come up with different
ways to remember them.

And it's it's so stupid.

I'm so small on 1 level, but.

On the other hand, like I know
how fired up my brain is like I

know how fired up and excited.

I am to learn and use these
words and conversation and, and

to just get out there and try.

That's the world that
we're living in right now.

And that adaptability.

I will say, and I'd be so
curious to know from you.

And I know that your work and your, the
consulting that you're doing is around.

A very certain outcome, it's passing
its certification and passing exams,

but I wonder, how you see adaptability.

The need in this world that we're living
in, and how fast the world is changing,

even in credit union, like, how do
you see people making the adaptability

jump, from, and see that evolving?

What does that look like in
the consulting practice today?

Treichel: I'll tell you adaptability
triggered, there's a strength finders

test that I've it used to be Gallup.

They got bought by another company.

But when I was at NCA, I took
that, this strength finders test.

You answer a bunch of
questions and it gives you.

Your five key strengths and it gives you
your scores that you're not so good at,

and I liked it so much when I was the
deputy executive director, 20 years ago,

I had everybody at the agency take it and
we had this training class where you could

learn from what others were and again,
going back to the teams and all that.

But the reason I bring it up is one
of my top five was adaptability.

Essentially that chaos.

Didn't bother me, that that being pulled
in one direction by one NCA board member

or by one staff member, I just viewed
that, maybe again, going back to the

river, it was the river is going to be
rough and you got, you have to adjust.

And that's been a benefit for
me as a consultant because

because what was helping.

An agency regulate someone.

I flip that 100, 180 degrees
talking about degrees again.

I flip that to helping
those who were regulated.

And I, and it's learning a new language.

And there's similarities to the other
languages that you know, but you start

to see things a little bit different.

But I agree with you a hundred percent
that, that the world is moving so fast.

And another thing that popped into my head
related was Seth Godin's daily emails.

He talked about new systems and
the constant need to learn, because

If you link to something in the
past because it's comfortable for

you you might wake up the next day
and find out that it's irrelevant.

And what you're doing is a
little bit more relevant.

And I love that, the idea
of the continual learning.

I guess that's what when we talk about,
pivoting to doing something new I'm

really enjoying learning things that I,
that, that are related, but whether it's

doing a podcast, and failing forward,
John, I took Jonathan Stark's class when

we, when I started my podcast and it
was five days on how to, how to start

a podcast and then, okay, do it right.

And, my first message, my, my first
podcasts were pretty, pretty rough.

And I've grown a little bit over
time, but Not being afraid to

lose sight of the shore is such a
good skill set for anyone to have.

And and then also, in the world of
coaching reaching out we used to

hire coaches for our executives.

When they came up to the executive
level, we had contracts where we

would arrange for coaches for them
because Being a doer is different than

being a manager and being a leader
is different, but an executive is

different than being a manager and
it creates a lot of new challenges.

And there were people who came
up, it's I don't need a coach.

And so I was instilled with This
concept of that being important.

So when I came out and realized
I was going to want to go down

this path of doing consulting, I
reached out to, I've had probably

seven or eight different coaches at
different times on different things.

And That, which goes back to that,
them teaching me different things

that I wouldn't have thought of
the sports psychologist that you

mentioned, being open to advice.

I guess it's another way of saying it.

Joe Jacobi: I love that.

And by the way, I think for people that
are listening, that are thinking about

coaching, I think one of the things
I like to say my best experience in

being coach, not as a coach, it's also
true as a co when, as a coach, but

really I learned this from hiring my
own coaches as me being the coachee.

Is that I think it's good to go into it
with a goal or maybe there's something

you want to improve upon and you know
what that is, but be open to something

more be open to something magical to
happen and very specifically a couple

of years ago, I took, Dustin Reichman's
podcast profits accelerator course.

It was all about podcast
guesting and I loved it.

I went into it with a focus on podcast
guesting, but I was very open to other

things that could come out of it.

And my gosh, I think it was so much
of the preparation and the process

of setting that up and how I could
really use that to create some

vision to my work as a soloist coach.

It was phenomenal.

And so I think now when I'm,
when people are really thinking

like do I need a coach?

What do I need a coach for be thoughtful
about why you would want to coach?

What is that thing that you
really want to improve on?

And then just open yourself
for something magical to happen

or for some change to come in.

And that's, those are the big jobs.

And I have a few examples of, again,
for me being the coachee, not the

coach, where that has happened.

And of course, as the coach, I've
seen it with my clients as well.

Treichel: Yeah, no, that's exciting.

When you can see growth in the people
that you're working with and they come in

with that goal and then they achieve it.

It's special for them and it's
special for the coach as well.

So we jumped over a from winning the
gold medal to, doing the coaching, but

there's a transition period in there.

And I know you were the CEO of
us canoe and kayak for a while.

And I know that that I've heard you
tell stories about, doing motivational

speaking after you did the Olympics and
some advice you got relative to that.

So maybe speak to what your After the
gold medal and then you transitioned

into doing other things in the sport and
then other things beyond that speak a

little bit to that part of your journey.

Joe Jacobi: Yeah, this and this
was something I wrote about in

the last chapter I wrote about in
slalom was this story so we were

on the bus, going to the closing
ceremony at the 1992 Olympic Games.

And this legendary coach that
was same legendary coach.

It was at my first training
session when I was 12 years old.

Now it's 10 years later.

And Bill Endicott is his name says to
me, he says, Joe, you're an Olympic

champion and you're going back to the
United States the day after tomorrow.

What's next.

And I said I've got some
speaking engagements lined up.

I can't believe it.

I'm a whitewater canoeing guy and
people want to hear the story.

And he said, yeah.

Could I give you some advice?

And I said, of course, and Bill
said he goes four years ago, I

coached Norm Bellingham who won a
gold medal in flatwater kayaking.

And I know Norm because we went to
summer camp together in the DC area.

And he says, I'll tell
you what I told Norm.

For the first couple of weeks,
when you go back to the U.

S., you can put on your Team USA
uniform and a gold medal around your

neck, and you could just say, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah, and people will

think that's interesting, but then,
it's not good or bad, it's just human

nature for people to say, Joe, that's
great, you won a gold medal in the

Olympics, but how does that help me?

And Bill said, Joe, if you can
figure out how this helps them you'll

tell the story as long as you want.

And I'm still telling the story
today, 32 years later, not because

I love telling the story, but
because I see it's helping them.

And it's all about the transfer.

It's all about taking an activity
that people know very little about.

That's hard to really
wrap your hands around.

Kids are not checking out canoes and
kayaks during recess in the United States.

It's not P.

E.

It's it's hard to do.

It's hard to access in a lot of places.

It takes resources and money and
time for the parents to shuttle you

back and forth to and from the river.

It's not easy to do.

I just knew from the moment
we won the Olympics that this

was going to be like a big.

Effort project in reframing
Olympic success for me and

really, what does it mean for you?

And I've never stopped doing that.

And not only have I done that with
the river now for 32 years I wrote

the book to 2 years ago, and And 30
years after winning the Olympics.

So I waited until I had all this
experience and won the Olympics and said,

okay, I know something about the river.

I'm good at giving voice to the
river and here's how it'll help

you navigate the river of life.

Now, what I'm doing is I'm learning
how to paddle in the sea and surf these

offshore ocean waves on a surf ski kayak.

I'm never going to be
world champion at that.

I'm a relative beginner at it.

But oh my gosh, Mark, the
sport is so beautiful.

I'm having so much fun learning
something new, and I'm doing

this with my girlfriend Maria.

And it's I write these weekly essays
every week called Thinking in Waves,

which relates the learning experience
that I'm having to an innovative model

for clear thinking and better choices.

And It's always about taking what
I'm doing and reframing it in a

way that will help other people.

And I just see no limits on what it can
do, but it also, not everyone's willing

to do that work, like to use the river
as a high performance metaphor, or to

use the sea and use ocean waves as a
high performance thinking metaphor.

It takes a little work, you're gonna,
it's like we were speaking about earlier.

We, you're going to have to
figure out some methodologies

and models that work for you.

And they're going to be uniquely yours.

You can't take them from someone
else, but they are principles.

They are frameworks that will help
you figure out what you're good at,

what you enjoy, what you don't enjoy.

Where you're losing momentum, where
you're managing energy poorly where

you're not aligned with your core values,
your core mission and your core purpose.

I think all, your competitive edge.

Everyone has like a scale of how
they compete with others and how

they compete with themselves.

Everything from I want to win in
a almost in a not so good way.

To being like, dude, I have
no interest in competing.

That is so not me.

That's also not very helpful.

You know it, but we got to look into these
things and figure out models that help us

understand who we are and how we operate
in order to build a plan that works for

ourselves and one that is built around our
capacities and the conditions around us.

And that's it.

That is, That is really what I took
away from this transitional experience.

And, and now it's something that I
can form collaborations with people.

I can, no matter what those collaborative,
those transitions are around, whether

they're very professional or whether
they're more personal and and we can work

that out and it adds tremendous value
to people's life, like huge value to

people's life because they're not alone.

And they're not.

Stuck in the mud, but they're
really, enjoying the process

of experimentation and growth.

Treichel: That's a fascinating
an eloquent summary.

And it reminded me of one of our
conversations when you were Filling

me with the energy of your wisdom.

And I pointed out to you
a song by the Water Boys.

This is the Sea.

And as you're talking about having,
yes, you having transitioned from the

river to the sea, there was actually a
line in that song that was the river.

And this is the sea.

So now you're out there doing it on
the sea so that circle is complete

Joe Jacobi: a hundred percent.

And the, and by the way, the
river to the sea, it can feel like

the sea is the end of the line.

Oh my gosh, it's just beginning.

Like it's incredible out there.

And I have, I still, Maria and
I paddle on the river as well.

Like we're still active
river people as well.

But for the next two months,
it's like tomorrow, I'm not

doing one downwind session.

I'm doing two downwind sessions,
a morning and an afternoon.

And and it's really funny.

And just to, I think this is so
interesting as I share this with people.

My purpose in paddling on
the sea, it's so clear.

I want to see beautiful things from
the water with Maria, full stop.

That's it.

And you would think,
great, we'll go do that.

If I see a whale or a beautiful
sunset, you would think box check.

No, it doesn't work like that.

There's beautiful things
to see all the time.

And even better, if I get, if I keep
myself in good shape, If I get more

proficient at surfing the waves and
I'm very attentive to the direction

I'm going and why I'm doing it
and how I'm doing it, guess what?

I'll get to do this for a longer part
of my life, which means I'll get to see

more beautiful things with Maria for a
longer period of time, which is great.

Life is all about for me.

That's it.

I, it's so clear and so easy.

It gives me all the reason I need to wake
up and get out of bed in the morning.

And I think having those conversations
with other people, and even you

said something at the start of this
conversation, I think that we can

also help more of the leaders of
credit unions, people that are working

in the government, start to think
about these next chapters of life.

You're not going to give up.

Not only are you not going to give up
your competitive edge on what you're

doing now, more likely, you're going
to sharpen that competitive edge.

If you give yourself not like the idea of
what sitting on the sofa and lying around

is going to look like, but what learning
and growth and peak performance is going

to look like as defined by Mark as defined
by the person who's listening to this.

It's such an awesome opportunity.

Treichel: Oh, it sure is Joe.

That's that's fantastic.

So as we wrap up here if someone
is listening today and they want

to, so I see you on LinkedIn a lot.

I know you've got, I
subscribed to your newsletter.

If someone wants to connect with Joe
and talk to him about anything we

talked about here or arrange to have
you as a coach what's the best way

for them to get in touch with you?

Joe Jacobi: Yeah, first of
all, I'll give you some links

in the show notes to do that.

But really connecting with
me on LinkedIn is great.

Subscribing to Thinking in Waves is an
easy thing to do from my LinkedIn profile.

And jojacoby.

com is being redone and fixed
up right now, but you can

still email me and schedule, a
discovery session there right now.

Of course, we will have a lot
of better functionality on the

new website when that's ready.

But yeah, LinkedIn is a really
good way and we can also get a

couple of links in the show notes
that make connecting really easy.

And I gotta, before I go, I
gotta do a shout out to my

credit union that I work with.

In Ducktown, Tennessee, the
Copper Basin Federal Credit Union.

I know Jessica Grostick follows
your content on LinkedIn.

I haven't been in the United States
in five years and I've been living

where I live for seven years now.

I don't have a fancy international bank.

I have Copper Basin Federal Credit Union
in the United States and that is it.

And they are amazing.

I can do everything I need to do
to live a rich life financially.

In Spain, because of what happens it, my,
one of our bankers at comprobation federal

credit union is Casey and is amazing.

I can text with her.

I can send her a message and.

It's incredible the world that
we're living in right now.

And Ducktown, southeastern
Tennessee is this small town.

Ducktown is like 300 people
and it's in the edge of the,

the Cherokee National Forest.

It's feels like the middle of nowhere.

It's beautiful.

Anyone would love visiting there.

And yet it's incredible what
they make possible for me

and the way I live my life.

So I know that credit unions
are what this is all about.

And I just wanted to do a
little shout out for mine.

Treichel: That's really cool.

Credit unions rock.

That's people helping people
as opposed to, big banks making

profits for their stockholders.

I was fortunate enough to land in the
industry and then be able to help.

Help the agency help credit unions.

And it's just it's perfect that you're a
proud credit union member, Joe, thanks.

Thanks so much for your time today.

I've really enjoyed this.

Joe Jacobi: Thank you so much, Mark.

This was wonderful.

Treichel: You got it.

And listeners, I want to
thank you for listening.

I hope you'll listen again soon.

This is Mark Treichel signing
off with flying colors.

Thank you for joining us on this episode
of with flying colors, subscribe on

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episodes where subject matter experts

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If you would like to learn more about
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com.